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To find the King George/Gold Cup double:-
Sportsbook> Horse Racing> Antepost> It still takes a bit of finding because there is dozens of different choices here but it's there alright |
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Sportsbook wont let u put more than a 3 quid on.
Paddy Power only option. |
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The fact Alan King is talking of the Ryanair is he knows Smad isn't a top class horse over 3m+ in the best company. He's more a Triolo D'Alene,
on your comments on him winning the ryannnair i'd have an even monkey he doesn't run in the race and run in the gold cup, he hasn't a prayer at 2m5f imo in fact i think your whole argument is based on alan kings comments rather than an informed judgement |
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Lets just say, Smad Places' Hennessy win was so far from "phenominal" as horse racing wins come. He beat First Lieutenant and Theatre Guide, two placed exposed horses from yester year. 155 Smad Place won off. Cue Card would have lapped them off 155 even if he had his trapped epliogotus.
Smad Place is running in the King George so the owner agrees to go for the Ascot Chase then the Ryanair. Alan King is a smart trainer. If Smad Place wins the King George on merit I'll give up the game. It'll be a 165 King George win. That horse couldn't sniff anything close to a 170 in his lifetime. |
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urgh, I'm getting dragged back into the old days of opinions and arguments about single races about single horses etc..
But in my mind the fact you actually think Smad Place may win the King George makes me think you are a complete idiot Harry, when I know you are very far from it. Very very far from it, which make me question why you fancy him and I'm so much against him. Opinions I respect make me re-examine horses I discount. But, I can only think you must've won on him in the Hennessy and then the loyalty is easily understandable. If Sil Conti died, he would still win a Hennessy off 155 after they buried him. A 155 Hennessy winner is an average horse, one like Smad Place who is so totally exposed as never being close to being top class ever, in his entire career make me certain you won the Hennessy with him. I really think Smad Place has absolutely no chance at all ever of winning this race. |
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That's a long winded version of I don't get the Smad Place angle bar they won me the Hennessy so will stick win him for the King George one.
Vautour, Don Cossack, Cue Card, Sil Conti, Irish Cavalier. Any of those win I can understand. Anyone else winning on merit doesn't make sense to me. |
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Smad Place is an interesting runner if it's soft as it looks like being.
IF he can jump from the front as he did at Newbury on that type of ground then it's possible he could run a big race,although I doubt the others who are different class to the Hennessey field will allow that. Im glad he's running,he adds interest to the race. He's still relatively a young horse and he could run to a better rating,but he is a fair way behind some of these. Cannot see him winning,to many top class horses up against him,but it is possible he may get one or two out the comfort zone especially possible non stayers on soft ground? Anyway,not totally discounting him and a place is a possibility in my view. |
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have had a rethink after looking more in depth at the race ,will not be doing any kg gc doubles ,cant see any value in them at the prices ,looking back at vautours form it is not as hot as it looked at the time ,apart from valseur lido who has been since beaten by djakadam not a lot was in behind him in the jlt plus going right handed and the Kempton going his price is too short now imo ,think I will just let my small bets on vatour and silvino ride watch the race and leave it at that .
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If only horse racing was as simple as that CV. Just as lots has been made about Cue Cards breathing, not much has been made of Smad Place and for that matter, Al Ferofs', problems so its quite conceivable that they have improved markedly because of it.
Also, Smad Place is now officially rated 168 which doesnt put him far behind the best. Given he enjoyed himself round Kempton last time he was there and the manner in which he won the Hennesey makes people - justifiably imo - think he can win. Dont forget Teeton Mill won the Hennesey in a similar fashion off a rating in the 130's and won the King George off 155 so its not all about official ratings and discarding horses because of it. What do I think? I do feel Don Cossack is the real deal and is the more likely winner of the race but is priced accordingly. Im on Smad Place and Silvianaco Conti both at 14-1 as a bit of value. I dont like Vautour simply because he has to prove himself over 3 miles on what could be pretty bad ground. I dont buy into the Kempton 3 mile being an easy one, far from it, which is why I feel Cue Card will come up short again too. Looking forward to it though!! |
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I completely agree with CV here. I don't lay horses, but I wouldn't back Smad at 25/1. I like the horse and he's done me a couple of favours, but he's totally exposed as being short of top class. 168 is a fantasy if you ask me!!!!!!!
The difference between Teeton Mill and Smad Place is the fact that Teeton Mill was totally unexposed when he won and therefore the ratings to an extent were pointless. Smad Place has had countless opportunities to increase his rating but not been able to. He is constantly beaten by grade 1 and 2 horses and I see no reason whatsoever that it will change on Saturday. Irid DB - Yes I honestly think Don Cossack, Vautour, Cue Card & S.Conti would have won this years Hennessy as easy as Smad Place had they ran off 155. The difference is that they would have been Odds On. Over all though the King George looks like a brilliant race with lots of divided opinions. I'm on Conti EW 12/1 but yet to decide where to go on the day. DC looks incredibly solid to me. Vautour could be a wonder horse, but can't back him here due to MY concerns re his stamina. Cue Card has looked revitalised and I was very impressed at Haydock. Hard to discount Conti totally round here and I expect him to be very close to Cue Card. Road To Riches would be interesting if he came over. |
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But in my mind the fact you actually think Smad Place may win the King George makes me think you are a complete idiot Harry, when I know you are very far from it. Very very far from it, which make me question why you fancy him and I'm so much against him. Opinions I respect make me re-examine horses I discount. i don't think i ever mentioned him winning just disagreed with your reasoning in regards triola cv and no i didn't back it in the hennessy, i done my nuts on the young master, i did back it last year though, sick game in regards smad place he has been kept under wraps held up and has now put in 2 good performances off the front end and has improved for new tactics by a decent amount, do i think he is good enough here i'm not sure tbh as the hennessy is a hard race to fathom, what i will say about the 2 exposed horses he beat is they have dropped in the weights a massive amount and he won easy jumping well so deserves his rating in regards to my opinion on the king george i haven't got to the bottom of it tbh as i think it is a real tough betting heat... i like vautour but he is going to be harassed on the front end and his price is way to short so am happy to watch him win, i can't have conti as think he has been regressing for a few runs now the race is set up perfect for don cossack and he is pretty solid horse although his efforts against a lot of over the top horses at the end of seasons and against mediocre horses early season does make his rating very inflated, i have always thought he is a better horse right handed but this really is looking a proper test for him and 9/4 is tight although i like him i have backed al ferof the past 2 seasons for value purposes and if he could just back up his record fresh he is over priced i actually do like smad place and he is not out of this as i just don't have the top 3 in the betting as far clear as the betting implies i have never got an angle on cue card but he is in good form 7/2 makes no appeal to me though i do however think it is a brutal betting heat and doesn't inspire me to bet as vautour the horse i like the most, needs to prove his stamina and he is by no means going to get it easy on the lead and i could see him unplaced if the petrol gauge goes into the red |
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smad place running is a big plus for the don, with him there annoying vatour
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This could end up very deep ground for the track as the stick reading for the chase track is already down @ 5.8 which is already lower than last years boxing day fixture (6.1) and plenty more rain still to come. Whatever wins will have to be able to act on pretty poor ground and definitely stay well as is it going to be desperate even by Kempton standards if the forecasts are correct.
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I genuinely can't believe anyone thinks Smad Place is 'exposed'. He's the complete opposite to that imo.
In his novice season he only ran three times, two wins and a very close second in the RSA. As a second season chaser he only ran four times; in the Hennessy, the Cotswold Chase, the Gold Cup and the Aintee Bowl. and he ran a couple of decent races in those. Now, as an 8 year old he's two from two including a demolition job in the Hennessy. I'm not saying he will win this, but I wouldn't be writing him off myself, and certainly wouldn't consider him exposed. |
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I cant understand why so many people say "I don't think he will win it ...but..."
I think he has a good as chance as any and can win... lets take a look at the main protagonists DON COSSACK 3rd to Uxizandre in the Ryanair... year before that fell in the RSA that Smad place was neck second... best race this season was against who - a unfit Djakadam ??? VAUTOUR Never raced beyond 2m5f... tackling 3m for the first time... surely that is a big question mark over the horse as not proven over the distance, to take a King George against proven stayers. Surely - on these set of circumstances suggests Smad Place has good chance as any of these?? I think common sense will prevail once people start digging in to the race come Saturday and will be 4/1+ the field... |
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Unfit Djakadam? You mean the Gold Cup had left it's mark? I can't make up my mind on Don Cossack to be honest. If Djak ran to form at Punchestown then he could be a top notcher, but it is quite reasonable to doubt that he did.
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Was that me Iris? I was just defending the horses chances, against those who are saying he can't possibly win.
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Yes agree with you totally CantCatchUp it was a real good argument- wasn't a rebuff of yours at all.
Heard it branded about since he got supplemented - heard preview on betfred, and racing uk and on this thread... so just struck a chord when you said... I'm not saying he will win this, but I wouldn't be writing him off myself Just sense someone (not you - ill make that clear) is afraid to say he will win cos they might look silly afterwards if he bombs ... seems to be a tentative view by most. I myself think Conti will win... and prepared to get slated if he doesn't. :) But good things about these threads there views and opinions and it wouldn't be the same without them. |
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Smad Place has had 26 career runs, looks like we know a lot about him. Same sire as Nacarat who ran in a couple of King George's behind Kauto.
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So would you class him as 'exposed' Sint? I heard the argument pre Hennessy tbh.
Ok cheer Iris. Appreciate it did sound like sitting on the fence a bit! Just think he deserves a bit more respect and has earned his chance in this company. He certainly hasn't got anywhere else to go with his new mark. |
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I will be shocked if Vatour doesn't get 3m so that's not a negative for me.
But going right handed might be a problem, and then there's the price of course. Looks a wide open race this year. One to savour. |
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Don't think SP was supplemented Iris. He always had entry and AK decided to declare him after all. Not sure a horse can win a KG of this quality as an afterthought. AK did same with Annacotty and ran him in Caspian Caviar when originally saying he'd need more time. Personally I'd be surprised if ran to same level as he did in Hennessy
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The King George is the race where you can find out if a top class horse can get a staying trip. Best Mate had gone 2m4f in the Scilly Isles Novice Chase before being ridden to get the trip by McCoy which was a mistake AP has since admitted. Obviously after winning his first Gold Cup a few months later he was then ridden as though he got the trip the following year and won it on his only other attempt.
The following year 2m Champion Chaser Edredon Bleu from the same stable won the King George with a barn-storming ride having tried in the race when well beaten a few years previously following a prep win in the Peterborough. Most connections try the 3m trip just before the King George. Kicking King was beaten by Beef Or Salmon a few lengths in his first attempt at a staying trip before winning the King George a couple of months after. Kauto Star proved he could stay when he won the Betfair Chase a month before his first King George win. Class horses nearly always stay the extra few furlongs at Kempton. It is normally a question of whether they are good enough and whether they have the explosive speed at the end of 3m at Kempton that they have shown over a few furlongs less elsewhere. One thing is for sure, you have to ride the horse as though he gets the trip. If you hold on to him too much and he misses a beat the leader in a strong King George will not usually be stopping in front (the exception being Cue Card in recent years). |
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My query would be how the Irish horses will handle Kempton. I cant think of an Irish track similar and on Good to Soft ground, a King George winner needs to display equal amounts of guts, jumping ability, and blend of stamina / speed. A King George winner wouldnt necessarily strike me as being that years Gold Cup winner either.
Im not saying the Irish horses cant win, but it sure looks like one of the strongest renewals in recent years. One to be very much to be having a small wager on the day and then sitting back and watching the excitement unfold! |
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It's a strong renewal because of Don and Vautour.If the Irish horses don't run its just a race that has no bearing on the Gold Cup and becomes a Ryanair trial.
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Smad Place must run a bigun if in the
same form as his Newbury win. GL ALL |
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I am on Smad Place for small money and might have a shilling e/w on Ballynagour when it goes to 100/1.
I agree with Sam that it is a strong renewal. One to enjoy. |
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I am also gutted about Coneygree he looked like he could win a few Gold Cups.
I want a superstar like Kauto,hoping Vautour can be that horse. |
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Oops didnt mean to copy your comments jasey.
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If either of the Irish horses win this they will become worthy and very strong favourites to win the Gold Cup.
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Mullins on Vautour:
"I'd be hoping he'll stay. He won the JLT last year and the way he came up the hill there didn't look to be any stamina issue," said Mullins. "He was so impressive at Cheltenham, like he was the year before there. Whether we can get it out of him at Christmas (I don't know), but I don't want it out of him until March, it's just the way we train our horses for that peak in March, not Christmas. "I'd love to win the King George and hopefully he's good enough, but it seems to be the way we train, we've never won a Lexus yet we can turn the Lexus form around in February and March as we win the Hennessy (in Ireland). "It will be interesting to see, will he jump right this time? He was jumping a little left (at Ascot) and that has to be a concern, especially going round a track like Kempton. Interesting comments from the trainer. |
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I think Vautour is a machine but, and I know this is a ridiculous statement given its the King George, can't help but think it's a prep race and see where they are at with a 70% ready Vautour. You know Conti, CC, AF and SP are going to be ready for this and at the prices I'd dutch all 4 which pays 13/10.
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Yep we all remember Imperial Commander , not a fair comparison as V has won going Right handed , but he can jump left , even when going that way .
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IrisDeBalme • December 23, 2015 8:09 PM GMT
Interesting comments from the trainer. Backside covered if Vautour doesnt stay perhaps? As has been mentioned already they've got such strength in depth that the King George / run of Vautour will determine a lot of running plans. |
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I have been told that their will be heavy rain on xmas day & boxing day, I know it is usually wrong but im holding my proper bets until after the first or 2nd race.
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Fair point Sonko re the ground,giving it as gd/sft at the moment,that could change quickly with minimal rain.
Each of the main protaganists have one or two question marks,many discussed already.At the current prices Conti does look the value,loves Kempton,acts Right handed,should have his ground,and he has peaked in Dec last two seasons. Looking at his overall career record,the hurdles prep was a strange one,unless he really was that unfit,fitness again was mentioned after Haydock,C Card beat him well that day. Saturdays race does look stronger than the last two,but he is no back number if PFN has him anywhere near his best,coneygree was eased after the last in the 2014 Feltham,Conti time was 4.4 secs quicker in the KG,in that kind of form he is a very good horse. Fascinating race,lets hope they all turn up on their A Game. |
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Vautour is the lay of the race for me, more doubts than the others and trainer hardly sounds confident.
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22nd Dec
On Vautour's chances of winning the William Hill King George VI Chase... "I'm hoping he's good enough to win a King George and then we can think of Cheltenham, but I'm not going to say too much. As far as I'm concerned, we start off each year with a clean slate. I can't go to bed dreaming of what races we are going to win. "I think I'm still as excited as I was about Vautour. I do remember he disappointed last Christmas and I'm hoping he can get over that. His mid-season runs every year have not been as good as his March runs. I think he's better in the spring. It's just how it is, but he might not be like that this year. "Vautour is having his first run over three miles, and, yes, that has to be a concern. He jumped a little to his left at Ascot, and that also has to be a concern, but the way he jumped around Cheltenham over two-five, I think three at Kempton should be well within his grasp. It will be a differently-run race - busier - but I think he was just idling and had too much time to think." |