|
By:
Yeah Djakadam is a big problem as he seems totally ideal for the Gold Cup and unlike Gigginstown RR doesn't seem keen at all on running them against each other.
|
|
By:
I think Djakadam best chance was last year - this year is much tougher... last years Gold Cup proved how poor current bunch were.. likes of Lord Windermere... Bobs Worth and Giant Bolster... Silviniaco Conti - out with the old in with the new
Top 4 were Coneygree Djakadam Road To Riches Holywell How many would have said that after last years King George? |
|
By:
still to see no bit of form that says last years Gold Cup form wasn't top class
|
|
By:
The Gold Cup is the Gold Cup. If Coneygree never runs another race he is a legend. Why? Because he won the Gold Cup. Ricci has two outstanding chances in the race this year. I find it inconceivable that Mullins or Ricci wouldn't want to give themselves the best chance of winning the blue riband event of the whole National Hunt season. Would they accept a Ryanair and a place in the Gold Cup? Probably given the exceptionally tough and potential high quality of the big one. If they did though I guarantee they will always wonder what if?
The fly in the ointment is Ruby. Of course he will try to steer Ricci towards the Ryanair for Vautour for two reasons. He personally then has a shot at picking up both races and if he chose wrongly he would hate to give up the mount on the winner should that come to pass. Ricci has to be strong here. Vautour is very inexperienced and ran a wonderful race in defeat today. He has every chance in the big one. |
|
By:
EO. Did you not see RR's interview today? You might find it inconceivable, but I really do think it's the case.
|
|
By:
And as for RR being strong, he's been quoted enough times saying he leaves the decisions to Ruby and WPM. That won't be changing.
|
|
By:
Remember similar thing after Best Mate finished 2nd to Florida Pearl as 6-y-o. No Grade 1 Ryanair in those days but sure same debate would have ensued had there been. Think it was Jenny Pitman who was enthusing afterwards saying it was a fab=ntastic run from a young horse and she fully expected him to go on and win GC.
Vautour and Djakadam could easily fight out GC finish, surely RR and WM would take that now. |
|
By:
Fair enough if people say vautour will go ryanair because of the mullins yard history of spreading themselves thin. That makes more sense than saying hes going ryanair cos he doesnt get 3 miles.
But what more could he have possibly done in a king george to get ahead of djakadam in the gold cup pecking order? Does he have to hose up by 20 on the snaff to nullify any crap about kempton not being a proper gold cup trial? |
|
By:
If Vautour won by a head what price for Gold Cup not 12/1?
|
|
By:
Really like Djakadam for GC but if it's goodish ground I could easily see Vautour being clear into the straight and although it's a long way home from there I would take that now if I was on at a juicy price
|
|
By:
CH4 mentioned something about the final time being much faster than the Feltham, but the last 2 furlongs being much slower so they must have really gone fast for the first 2 miles. If it's decent ground at Cheltenham Vautour is still a big player in the Gold Cup. 8/1 nrnb with Skybet looks a decent shout.
|
|
By:
Todays race proved a couple of things but provided far more questions than answers. Not alone are we not any wiser re who wins the GC we dont even know who runs in it. Apart from the questions re Vautour what about DC as Giggi has Don Poli so perhaps they may go Ryanair with DC.
|
|
By:
And they have Road to Riches. Would agree that one of those three may go Ryanair, but based on DC today, I think he needs a trip now and the GC would suit him better than the Ryanair.
|
|
By:
Ruby no doubt would like to win both the GC and the Ryanair - lets face it we all would - but if he genuinely believed that Vautour had a better chance of winning the GC than Djakadam then he would ride Vautour in the GC irrespective of what happens wrt the Ryanair. In fact RR and WM would want their best horse/horses in the GC. Thats the one most would want to win and they might run the two in the GC anyway even if Ruby picked Dj. There are very few certainties in this game especially in a race like the GC and if one has worthy bullets you use them. Whats the Ryanair race anyway its only just been upgraded to gr 1 and isnt even the main race on the Thursday.
|
|
By:
Controversial as this may be. I think Mullins is the reason Vautour lost. He is a big fan of winning while his chasers are Novice Hurdlers. The best way to do that is to make the running but this in turn will ultimately hamper their long term chances in staying chases. His best chances of Gold Cup winners are with horses who are lazy and save themselves. Making all to win the Supreme Novices is never going to yield him a Gold Cup winner. Vautours career so far and the rides he get don't give him the chance to win.
As I said in this thread. Ruby was going to give Vautour a Kauto 5th King George ride. Go for it download the back and hope he's timed it right so he's not caught in the straight before the line. It worked that time because Kauto Star is a considerably better jumper than Vautour around Kempton. Vautour was keen and novicey and jumped left. He will go for the Ryanair and will then be campaigned again for the Gold Cup next season. I think he has the class to win a Gold Cup despite the fact he doesn't truly stay the trip. He's like a poor man's Kauto Star and I mean that as high praise. I think both he and Cue Card ran 177 today. Which is the best performance in the race since Kauto himself. |
|
By:
The time was good, still think ruby should had shot clear, Ruby rode a race like a jockey who had top class competitive riding in his book.
Looked like an Irish cruiser. Im ruby's biggest fan. |
|
By:
I have Vautour Antepost for the Gold Cup and I believe that bet is and should be dust now. He clearly tired in the straight. He can only win a Gold Cup if switched off in midfield and it's good ground. He cannot win it this season so they will likely accept that and go for the Ryanair.
There is a chance though they may just go for it this year. The horse of both Mullins and Riccis lifetime will win the RSA by half the track and will be unstoppable in next seasons Gold Cup. But as for the King George. I said I'd never get over it. But it is actually very easy to get over a loss like that when you have had not a bit of bad luck in running. Vautour ran his race and got tired. Cue Card is in top form and was the better horse today and he deserves the win |
|
By:
You've got egg on your face, no doubt about that betilyered. I think less of you now as you chose to take me on head to head and you were well and truly stuffed but haven't owned up.
|
|
By:
Seriously who are you? Did I have a discussion in this thread with you on Vautour vs Cue Card?
|
|
By:
"Autocue
Your synopsis conveniently overlooks the 2014 running of both races when SC destroyed CC by 12l in the Betfair and by further in the King George or did that year not count? Its amazing how many people on this forum cherry-pick stats to make them fit their argument. Ive made the point earlier in this thread that you are not trying to tell me its taken this long to discover he had a breathing problem that affected his performance to such such an extent. Trapped epiglotis or not I would back SC around Kempton any day in a match with CC and believe the change of headgear will be the difference. We will see!!" betilyeredfaced |
|
By:
vautour would be like one man up the hill
not going to happen |
|
By:
Nothing to do with you CVByrne. Betilyeredfaced decided to take issue with my selection of Cue Card and slated my logic then came back on here today pretending it didn't happen.
|
|
By:
I went back 6 pages and found nothing.
I remember now reading that. I hold my hands up. Genuinely thought Cue Card couldn't improve at the age he is now and having lost 3 times in the race previously. Completely opposed him today and I got chinned on the line for my troubles. From the past 6 pages you've staunchly been in Cue Cards camp and made the case for him here. To get up and win in the line and the enjoyment that brings is what makes this sport so amazing. Congrats on the win. I've no complaints my horse has no excuses. Cue Card deserves it |
|
By:
I'd honestly not been on this thread for ages as mired in repetitive discussion leads nowhere and I'm on holiday at the moment. I'd completely forgot I'd had the discussion with yourself Autocue.
Cue Card is such a likeable horse. I also like people who put their staunch opinions out in support of a horse. So genuinely well done. |
|
By:
Still think that Djakadam and Don Poli are the Mullins GC horses. Willie gave Vautour a try at 3 miles and very nearly won but he looks the Ryanair horse for this year.
|
|
By:
Well interesting fact about race times...
Yesterdays race was the same time posted by Silviniaco Conti last years renewal... so although SC had beaten horses like Dynaste etc that are not considered as high class opposition by some, the time is the same as yesterday. So clearly something not right with SC, he also ran a respectable time in the Aintree Bowl, so really his performance this season shows something is seriously amiss... |
|
By:
Surely time can only be the same if conditions are identical.
|
|
By:
Both were good to soft - don't have reading but id assume it would be close ... but clearly not his best running on a track he has excelled in.
|
|
By:
You're on the wrong track CVByrne. The argument I had was with a poster called betilyered on this forum on 11th and 12th December. So absolutely no need for you to apologise. I respect a man who hold staunch opinions, writes from the heart then owns up when he got it wrong without making excuses. For what it's worth I thought Vautour ran a fantastic race. Cue Card came into the King George with better form this season, Vautour was inconvenienced by the right handed track (though connections would never put that up as an excuse) and he was untried at the trip. He forced the pace from a long way out and very nearly pulled it off. I think he's better off in the Ryanair this season but wouldn't write him off as a stayer in future years.
|
|
By:
And we shouldn't forget Paddy has been banned 11 days for overuse of the whip (cf Ruby 2 days) and said his horse was all out. Prior to Christmas I'd backed Djakadam for the Gold Cup and Vautour in the Ryanair in singles and multiples and unless something goes amiss I'll likely add to those bets on the day.
|
|
By:
if UDS doesnt deliver vautour will go for the CC
|
|
By:
Cue Card wont run now until the Gold Cup
From a stats perspective, that has been the undoing of a lot of horses not having a run after Xmas. Personally, would have preferred another run... to make sure fitness is at the right peak. From a pricing perspective not bad really as whatever horses do bookies will factor the Cue Card in their book, so cant see anything shorter than 5/1 at any stage before the GC. |
|
By:
Fashion Fever, cant see that at all - Vautour going for CC, UDS will be main target for that regardless of him faling in the remaining races up to March.
|
|
By:
Dry yer eyes mate.
What do you want me to do? Get into a slanging match? Well done for backing the winner and hope 2016 is as fruitful as it was for you yesterday. |
|
By:
iris I meant if UDS cant run whatever reason, vautor will take his place
UDS surley has a few question marks now |
|
By:
well he fell,but that can happen,I can't imagine that making a difference as regards him running in the Ch chase.
He has proved himself to be a good jumper normally. Question is what race should Vautour run in for his connections. Past history tells us they like to split them up. So all fit it's pretty clear UDS champion chase,Vautour Ryanair,Djakadam Gold cup. Still,you never know,they may decide to put 2 in the same race,but I doubt it myself. |
|
By:
But surely owner is main part of connections and I'm sure Ricci would love runner in CC. On ATR talking of Douvan getting an entry
|
|
By:
yep,it's a fair point,but last Cheltenham,UDS went Arkle,Vautour JLT.
Probably be the same again I expect |
|
By:
A horse of the class of Vautour really shouldn't be in the black hole between the top championship races.
I think he could go very close in the champion. |
|
By:
Vautour has been badly campaigned, not often you can say that about a mullins horse. But with Ruby/Mullins its all about the most winning opportunities rather than them winning the race that suits them best.
Best 2mile chaser since Master Minded and Sprinter Sacre in his prime. I really want Annie Power to run in the world hurdle, so i can lay the arse out of her again. |