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KING GEORGE - SILVINIACO CONTI 12/1
KING GEORGE - SILVINIACO CONTI 12/1
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Best 2 m chaser since MM and SS? He's only won one chase at 2m!!
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So you think differently, which is good.
It was over 2m1f, but that is not important. As i said before hs has been campaigned because of stablemates. The problem i have is that a true 2 miler with speed and stamina is being aimed at races to help out other horses in a the stable. I would love Vautour to put UDS in his box, which is in the 2nd division of chasing. |
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Mullins and Ricci will be hell bent on getting a Gold Cup, probably more likely to be crazily aimed at it than dropping down to 2m and jumping them silly in the champion.
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It makes sense to go for the Ryanair this season. He may well win a Champion Chase, but surely the long term goal would be the 2017 Gold Cup, and dropping him back to 2 miles would not help that. I thought at the start of the season that he was a lay for the Ryanair as he was just too good to be running in it, but now it seems like the most sensible option.
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mullins running plans depend on so many otehrs in the barn, the ryanair is the right race, and you might aswell give him the trophy now..boring !
still feel they left the KG winner in the barn yesterday, I think will ruby will wanna ride him in the GC |
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Vautour and Cue Card both remind me of
Florida Pearl cracking 3 milers but not GC horses,think they will be found wanting up that hill.Only my view. GL ALL |
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Sonko,
Winning one novice chase at that distance is not sufficient to make claims he is that good. Yes he may be that good,but it's pretty pointless saying it without any evidence. You have a feeling,that's fine of course,but nothing to back it up.so far hew won a supreme,and a JLT,struggled a tad to beat Ptit Zig,and got beat in a KG. nothing there to be mentioned with Sprinter and Master. And I don't get this ante UDS opinion you seem to have,he's multiple Grade One Winner at 2m,and a horse his trainer runs in the top 2m races,the same trainer as Vautour. Forgive me if I am wrong,and I apologise if I am.....but you sound like a rather bitter pocket talker to me. |
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Maybe on reflection I should take that last comment back Sonko,I don't want to start some sort of fight on here.!,!
I just get a bit wound up sometimes when people have a pop at UDS cos of the Vautour thing. It's hardly his fault that connections have campaigned Vautour the way they have!! And to be fair to UDS,he has delivered the Grade Ones. Just think it would be nice if people appreciated an exciting front running 2miler for what he is. Not right to use the frustration some have re Vautors campaigning as a stick to beat UDS with. |
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UDS does seem to be a bit of a freak, perhaps untouchable if he stands up.
But he now has a record of 2 falls in 6 chases, and something wasn't right before the fall yesterday as the trainer highlighted. |
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fair points
Will be watching his next race with interest !! |
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UDS falls over fences have both come when he's been re-appearing after a break. He needs to run more often to take the fizz out of him and to get some more experience.
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that yester year horse ran well off of levels in the lexus cv
 of course you'll hit me with it was a below par renewal yesterday to which my reply will be i agree  |
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My opinion also would be that the Lexus was a poor race.
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If you use FL as a yardstick, then Don Poli has about 40L to make up on Cue Card. If only it were so simple.
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who is using yardsticks shockster?
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Theyre all metresticks nowadays Harry!
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reflecting on King George, I thought it was interesting that Paddy Brennan said on ATR that he did n't really think Kempton was Cue Card's track - judgments about him before the race were predicated around the fact that he'd failed in three previous King George attempts vs the impact of the breathing operation - he needed every yard of the three miles to prevail though that might be as much to do with the petrol guage running on empty for Vautour as anything else.
Now there seems to be a school of thought that he might not stay the Gold Cup trip - the only possible evidence to think that is the way he stopped suddenly in KG13 - surely that was put to bed on Saturday and most people would now accept that it was down to his difficulty in breathing. The Kings Theatre progeny have a very decent strike rate at 26f and beyond and include fantastic stayers like Balthazar King and the ill fated Brindisi Breeze. Currently King's Theatre has the likes of Cogry and The Druids Nephew prominent in the betting for the Welsh National and Grand National respectively. On a separate point Cue Card's previous four G1 chase wins were achieved by a cumulative distance of 26.5 lengths whereas on Boxing Day he showed he is game and hardy also - I'd see that as a plus also. (similar to a slightly lesser extentwith Sprinter Sacre on Sunday). Massive respect for Djakadam but I think Cue Card should now be second favourite for the Gold Cup and I would n't be that surprised if he comes up the hill well clear. I don't see any evidence that he won't stay - the doubt is purely because he's not tried the trip before, most recent Gold Cup winners have been running in the race for the first time. |
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Cue Card was a horse in the form of his life and he just got up to win. We've no idea how ready Vautour was for the race nor how much going right handed hindered him. So it's really a tough one to weight up.
Cue Card may struggle to match that form in March. I noted how Brennan said. Look I'm not going to lie to you we had nothing left either. So it was too very tired horses with two tired jumps and and struggle to the line. It's more likely that Vautour will improve for the run and not as likely Cue Card will. But as I said it's tough to figure out as we've got strands of form like Djakdam, Road to Riches and Don Poli that don't cross with this race. |
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Harry I think people might be over rating Don Poli. His last 3 wins were OK but not beating top class grade 1 horses tbf. I accept his style of racing would really only show his depth of talent in a Gold Cup. He's unexposed and Mullins patchy Christmas record always has to be kept in mind.
As for Smad Place. I just thought it was a crazy idea the horse could run into the 170s and improve astronomical amounts based off a wind op. Cue Card has run a few lbs above his career best to win the King George. I've made some absolutely ridiculous calls before that with the benefit of hindsight were easy to see as folly. It's a tough game to call right after all. Back to the Gold Cup. I think the two to beat are Djakdam and Road to Riches. Cue Card Vautour form comes next with Poli in 3rd. |
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i have to say cv i have never over rated don poli, i've always had him down as a slow boat but he was very fortunate to come across such a weak rsa field as i found to my cost on the day when backing others to get him beat, however he hosed up...he is an annoying horse for me to get a true angle on as he is a lazy racer, his form doesn't actually amount to a whole lot so once again by default, like in the rsa i have to respect him because of the horses he will face in the gold cup...
although it looks competitive this is just an ok running of the gold cup imo i have a lot of horses rated very close with djakadam the best, however he is beatable but by who i'm not sure at this stage...i have a feeling don poli is probably better than the bare form and mullins has left plenty to do with him, they probably regard that win as job done and we got away with it i have just never got a true angle on the horse just because he hasn't really met to many good horse, he will continue to annoy me no doubt!! just in regards cue card i have that as a career best from him in the george and when looking at the race again it could be called a hold up ride really, whereas his previous form has always been a choke out prominent ride, the pace of the race and a cracking ride from brennan lead to more improvement from the horse and with such tactics likely in the gold cup he shouldn't be dismissed lightly at this stage, i would like to see walsh drop vautour in at some stage of his career as his also choke out style of running is not helping him settle and long term they aren't going to win a gold cup with him until they at least teach him to settle...because of willies depth of horses we might of been talking of him as a champion chaser if he won in the arkle but now we are stuck with him, he is still a cracking horse but a cracking horse with a price tag on his head now i'd probably have cue card, don cossack and djakadam clear at this stage but as with a lot of gold cups they really don't appeal to me in a major way betting wise i see us getting good value on the day so no reason to stick your neck out at this stage, i'd probably see djakadam hosing up next time and potentially going off a short price on the day...don cossack and cue card will be 9 by race time so that needs to be considered and is a concern for me... much to ponder in the coming months but at this stage the race doesn't interest me in regards betting |
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I absolutely don't consider any form of horses who run in the Gold Cup beyond that race. Time and time again they flop at Aintree and Punchestown after the Gold Cup. Denman and Kauto have been stinking bad in the past. The list is so long.
Given how brutal last years Gold Cup was I'm even more certain we saw nothing like top form from Djakdam or Road to Riches. Never take post Cheltenham form at face value. |
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Given time I can see Don Poli running in the Grand National, not next year probably in 2018; regards Don Cossack, having looked at his Cheltenham races again, in my opinion had been a touch unlucky at the crucial moments of the race, some of which were his own making eg running lazily/lacking concentration, but should he be within a length or two down after jumping the last fence at Cheltenham my money will be on him being the victor even if the leading horse is Djakadam - the run-in is just up his street!
I truly cannot see Vautour running in the CGC, if so, I'd be laying him big time just to prove a point: its owner ought to be seriously considering the Champion Chase over the Ryanair despite Mullins having UDS running in the former. |