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Horse Antepost
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These 362 comments are related to the topic:
Derby 2015
Derby 2015
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Replies: 362
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The Racing Post say Storm The Stars might go for the St Leger instead of the Derby.
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My guess is the decision about Gleneagles will depend on how hard a race he has today and how he comes out of it. As far as the opposition goes there is nothing to test him in today's field. There is no reason why Ivawood should turn the tables and I'm not even sure if he truly stays a mile. The rest, regardless of what they've achieved on paper, look no better than handicappers. If Gleneagles is in the same form as at Newmarket he wins. Even though he should take care of this lot the most important factors are how the race is run and how much Moore asks him to do. If we get a fast early pace and Moore asks him to really stretch then even though he should win emphatically the race will probably take something out of him. On the back of Newmarket and with the Derby only 2 weeks away this would be far from ideal and I'd be surprised if he remained a Derby possible. However, throughout his career so far Gleneagles has only been asked to race towards the end of the race and there has to be a strong chance the same will happen today.
I think we'll know their intentions from the way Moore rides the race. If Gleneagles is asked to fully extend then it looks like they're intent on taking advantage of what could be a weak division and establishing him as a miler. If Moore rides to win snugly then I'd say the Derby is being considered as a serious option. |
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Don't expect Glen to be anywhere near Epsom.
S J P Stks will be next all being well. |
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Nothing to lose. As theydont have a runner with a reaSONable chance of winning @ present
Looked as tho longer trip would do no harm. A run in the Irish Guineas didnt do The Mistrel or Secreto any harm |
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Nor Grundy a few years earlier, geoff. Even before the card has finished it's apparent the Irish Guineas wasn't run at a great overall pace, which contributed to Gleneagles having trouble in running and some moderate horses finishing closer than expected. On appearances it probably looked like he had a harder race than necessary but usually a race run like that doesn't take too much out of a horse so I'd expect him to come out of the race well. I suppose it all depends on how much they want to establish him as a miler. He'll have easy pickings next time against his own age group again but things could get difficult as he faces some older milers later in the year, as, despite what we've heard from the trainer, he hasn't shown exceptional mile form as yet.
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no chance or ever was of epsom, only reason he was left if it came up heavy today, and the derby principles dropped away, even slimmest of chances have certianly gone now, imo he harder enough race there
the SJP will be next then the sussex getting weight of the older horses, then the french races probably end his career at the breeders cup knowing them anyway hope he runs in the derby will get a nice price on golden horn |
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It's a strange year, The milers look very poor , Gleneagles for me is a 10f horse waiting too happen , he could stay the Derby, but if they had any serious intent then surely he would have had a 10f trial?. The hoerse is remarkable, his record tells us that , but from a ratings viewpoint he does look too be beating snails, it would be stupid too knock Gleneagles, he could be the superstar we never get,but what a poor year.
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aidan said hes the best miler they ever had?!?
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wtf
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Not Excelebration then, fair play at least they are honest.
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my weather have 40mm of rain to fall on epsom racecourse between june 4-6
surley they are at the winde up |
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Time to top up on Elm Park if that forecast is accurate!
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was thinling hans holbien would go off sub 2/1
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thinking*
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Will be shocked if Gleneagles runs at Epsom.
Would be a massive lay imo if he did (fairly sure he wont) Think Jack Hobbs is another unlikely to run either, looks very babyish to me, got unbalanced at York under pressure ffs, would be all over the shop at the Epsom helter-skelter, esp on fastish ground. Think he will bypass The Derby & be given more time to develop. |
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Golden Horn reminds me of Red Glow....impressive in his Dante..went off Fav at Epsom but beaten into 4th.Can't remember but I've a feeling Geoff Wragg had similar stamina doubts to John Gosden.Breeding very similar,too...by 8f-10f sires out of speedy mares.Interesting coincidence that the Oppenheimers were Geoff Wragg's other main owners(along with the Mollers-owners of Red Glow.I still couldn't talk myself out of backing Red Glow even though my gutfeeling told me no.
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After all the races had been run at the Curragh yesterday, just to confirm the poor time of the Irish Guineas the handicap won by Hasanour carrying only 2lbs more was run only .34 faster, with a whole bunch of horses finishing close behind. No reflection on Gleneagles but it does strongly excuse him for not looking very impressive, it's just the way the race panned out. The upside is he shouldn't have had too hard a race in the process, whatever his next target is.
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aidan said hes the best miler they ever had?!?
if true |
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It seems unlikely Gleneagles will go for the Derby but don't know why anyone would be shocked if he was to run, apart from it would go against what the trainer has said (would hardly be the first time this as happened). Would anyone be shocked at him being a runner on form/ability shown so far? Would it be any more shocking than New Approach going for the race when he supposedly wasn't. What would make him a massive lay?
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Coolmore PR machine never stops
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He would be a massive lay in my book simply because he is a miler & nothing more, esp with regards to staying 1m4f, not a hope of getting that far imo. In fact if he was to meet Golden Horn over 10f i would still be against him. Its all about opinion & as things stand thats mine.
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For what reason is he purely a miler?
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Of course I should've said the handicap was only .34 slower
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on the point of Gleneagles before it ran the other day people or somebody on ere was backing for the derby in 500 notes im assuming that these people are not guessing that it might run we will ave to wait and c my guess is that if todays runners don't show anything they will end up running Gleneagles this opinion is on based on the amount of money traded on ere
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so gud I said it twice
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Gleneagles now has another classic win in the reputation bank, and this game is about retiring to stud with your reputation intact.
Getting his ass kicked at Epsom will slice a load off his value. Aidan O'Brien saying he is their "best miler ever" sounds like the ventrilquist's dummy speaking. And we know the name of the ventriloquist. St James Palace Stakes next imo. Lose that and it doesn't really dent his reputation. It just confirms he is a miler. Running him outside a mile will just confuse people as to what he is. The story is he is a top miler, and you will hear that repeated at every opportunity. |
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Kinscem
You cant have it both ways If he loses @ Epsom it slices a load off his value yet if hes beat @ Ascot it doesnt? St James Palace Stakes next imo. Lose that and it doesn't really dent his reputation. It just confirms he is a miler Surely that comment applies to the Derby In stud value terms imo if he wins the Derby then its escalates significantly if he loses it wont harm it If he wins the SJP will hardly make a difference and if he loses surely thats a dent in his reputation. |
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And then there were 2
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He won't be tailed off in the St James Palace. He might be beaten by a wide margin in the Derby, possibly because his training has not been targeted at 10f+ / around a bend / something similar to the 140 foot Epsom hill.
Would Gleneagles advertise better on the Coolmore roster as a miler or a middle-distance horse? The advertising copy is almost written with two mile classic wins. On all my pedigree calculations Gleneagles is suited to the Derby, but I doubt he has been trained for it. It is all about earning a reputation, and preserving it. |
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Spot on Geoff M.
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Everything that i have seen of Gleneagles & heard from all the main people concern with him, is why i see him as a miler, not a mid-dist horse. If they do run him at Epsom (which i think they wont) he would be a lay, he wont get home.
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And then there was one
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One what ?
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Apparent Coolmore hope, a slim one at that.
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2 trial winners still in is there not? 3 if u count the Gns winner?
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The point was Gleneagles is apparently not to run, so deliberately not included. I should've included Kilimanjaro technically, but can't really believe Coolmore seriously consider him to have any chance of winning, maybe I'm wrong.
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kili did miss the start at lingfield....
wouldnt be suprised if he got a place....could say that about all the field though |
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GH will be 6/4 shortly
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Yes there have been plenty of lesser fancied runners that have made the places, especially from the O'Brien yard. Some horses aren't seen to best effect until they're in a race run at a fast pace over 12f. He could be one but I doubt they'd be satisfied having to rely on him. They've never seem to have fancied him, apart from his win in a Dundalk maiden and even then support was tepid.
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*They never seemed
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