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Steinbeck - 2000 Guineas
Steinbeck - 2000 Guineas
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Replies: 949
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I like Bullet Train - real galloper who doesn't mind being in front - the type Cecil does so well with (Old Vic, Slip Anchor, Reference Point). Won his trial well too. If SNA doesn't win it then none of O'Brien's will.
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I reckon B.Train is the best Derby trial colt we have seen so far,one thing you need at Epsom is a SOUND horse who stay's the trip,SNA may not have it so easy in a week or so.Im sure Push would agree with a few points here.
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St James Palace is going to be a cracker ... lets hope all 3 best milers are ready on the day. Steinbeck had his Greenham today lets hope he doesnt also need a further race like Canford to get into top flight.
“I’m delighted with the performance [of Steinbeck] after that layoff. He finished his race very well and was having a good blow after the race. The St James’s Palace is a likely next step.” |
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The prospect of all 3 meeting in the St.James Palace is one Id love to see,who knows which one will win,if Steinbeck is as you think Kirk Ballydoyles best miler then imo he will again get a sound beating and wont stand much chance of bagging a GR1 mile race this year.One point to think about is now its late in the breeding season,all mares booked to Footstepsinthesand this year have been covered and contracts signed,the stallion is on his own now so S'beck doesn't need to kept as a talking horse if he is just average (he sure looks it)then they have lost nothing but have filled his book this year off the promise of the prospect of S'beck.For Ballydoyle/Coolmore Hype=Money Hype a stallion=more mares=more money,thats how they work,sportsmen I think not,businessmen they are!
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Steinbeck is definitely well above average already with such few runs and so many setbacks to come out the best horse from the Dewhurst, the best milers 2yo trial (though the French race is vying for that). With a smooth preparation to his races and/or without St Nick around he could easily be the best miler in training by now. If you couldnt see the great promise in his Dewhurst and Irish Guineas runs you are best looking again. In fact Canford cut across him yesterday taking his ground though both going easy at the time. Canford may confirm form at Ascot but dont count on it for sure as we know from France onwards he may not be totally consistent and we also know Steinbeck has had chronic preparations hindering his progress which may now become smoother. Really impressed with how he travelled more than how he finished as you would expect him to blow up and be much better on that score next time. See how Murtagh was restraining him to drop out the back when he would have liked to have gone on, he can be dropped in or blitz it so you have a very versatile horse in terms of how he can be ridden also.
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Steinbeck was slaughtered yesterday, sometimes in life you've got to hold you hands and admit being wrong otherwise it can end costing you(and dearly).
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Thanks for that^
Didn't want to say much yesterday because didn't want to detract from the excellent performance of Canford Cliffs but for me Steinbeck ran a good race. The betting suggested that he wasn't going to be winning yesterday and given he's missed work and been known to have had a problem it made sense that he wasn't going to be fully fit first time up (just like O'Brien's others). As I've said on here before he's a galloper who wants to be racing just off a lead. Murtagh held him up behind Canford (proven turn of foot horse) which given we know Steinbeck doesn't have a turn of foot was never going to suit. Furthermore at no point did Murtagh really go for him, I think he hit him once and he travelled equally well behind Canford until the race fitness kicked in around 2f out. Next time up (at Royal Ascot if he stays sound) you'll see him prominent in behind a pacemaker and you'll see what he's really capable of. Suits me that people can't spot that though, just makes a better price on him. |
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Kirk,well we are never going to share the same view with Steinbeck,Slick spent more time with connections than me yesterday,I think from what was said J.Murtagh thought he was going to get a bit more from S'beck but never thought he would win.One colt that you could take from the race is Viscount Nelson he ran better here than over in NMKT and being by G.Causeway should improve I don't know but if he goes to Ascot I could see him running a good race.
I do agree with you that CC may not be that consistent,he may have peaked yesterday only time will tell.One thing stands out a mile is that Ballydoyle are not firing yet there does come a time when all the promise and hype can look a bit thin after a beating (SNA included)next run will confirm this. |
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i am pretty sure Steinbeck will improve a lot for that run, but he doesn't half need to. he was beaten about 12 lbs yesterday by Canford Cliffs. Its conceivable that he can improve that much by Ascot but the chances are against it.
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Plus CC won with plenty in hand. But it's form does seem a bit in and out. Probably due a disappointment next.
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ben10 you read this horse exactly as I do. There is no way he was ridden to win imo. He is definitely best just off a lead as you say and lost a lot of energy being restrained at the back when he could have been a couple up on Canford in the early stages without any more effort than the restraining took out of him. They gave him very much an intro race yesterday and he still got 4th.
Canford is a hybrid sprinter so asking anything to take him for turn of foot now he is fully race fit is asking a lot though Steinbeck himself does have a decent turn of foot himself. Canford was impressive and it is touch and go I probably wont have a bet in the St James Palace as I respect all 3 greatly. ben10 Joined: 06 Sep 07 Replies: 1451 23 May 10 08:10 Thanks for that^ Didn't want to say much yesterday because didn't want to detract from the excellent performance of Canford Cliffs but for me Steinbeck ran a good race. The betting suggested that he wasn't going to be winning yesterday and given he's missed work and been known to have had a problem it made sense that he wasn't going to be fully fit first time up (just like O'Brien's others). As I've said on here before he's a galloper who wants to be racing just off a lead. Murtagh held him up behind Canford (proven turn of foot horse) which given we know Steinbeck doesn't have a turn of foot was never going to suit. Furthermore at no point did Murtagh really go for him, I think he hit him once and he travelled equally well behind Canford until the race fitness kicked in around 2f out. Next time up (at Royal Ascot if he stays sound) you'll see him prominent in behind a pacemaker and you'll see what he's really capable of. Suits me that people can't spot that though, just makes a better price on him |
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What it also shows is that trainers are either intentionally or not very poor at getting their best horses ready for the English Guineas and with the pathetic watering bias is very much a second rate antepost race now. The Ballydoyle Montjeu mile Classic factor also shatters this race for future interest until it happens and true milers are given their chance in the race once more.
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ben10 23 May 10 08:10
Thanks for that^ Didn't want to say much yesterday because didn't want to detract from the excellent performance of Canford Cliffs but for me Steinbeck ran a good race. The betting suggested that he wasn't going to be winning yesterday and given he's missed work and been known to have had a problem it made sense that he wasn't going to be fully fit first time up (just like O'Brien's others). As I've said on here before he's a galloper who wants to be racing just off a lead. Murtagh held him up behind Canford (proven turn of foot horse) which given we know Steinbeck doesn't have a turn of foot was never going to suit. Furthermore at no point did Murtagh really go for him, I think he hit him once and he travelled equally well behind Canford until the race fitness kicked in around 2f out. Next time up (at Royal Ascot if he stays sound) you'll see him prominent in behind a pacemaker and you'll see what he's really capable of. Suits me that people can't spot that though, just makes a better price on him. Is this deja vu from the Dewhurst?same clap trap wheeled out then,as for the St.James Palace is a case of IF they can manipulate the race to suit him and IF they can get the work into him and IF he stays sound then he MIGHT win? |
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As with everything it depends on how they bet on the race, im a great CC fan and backed him and DT at newmarket, but imo he could go off a silly price at RA and Hannons can throw in the absolute stinker at times.
Having said that, Hannons Two year olds dont usually have only Two races as a juvenile |
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well summed up ben i concur with your views about steinbeck.
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I thought steinbeck ran a stormer & travelled stronbgly thro the race.
His 4th in the Dewhurst on 2nd outing was out the top draw its clear the stands side wasnt the place to be that day. Other horses that he beat ran low /close to the rail in the Dewhurst have subsequently taken 2nd in all 3 Guineas plus a 4th in the French Guineas via 3 different horses. Fame & Glory a well beaten fav in the champion stks also ran close to the rail that day. |
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Didn't he do well,got his ground set his own pace still couldn't win.........a load of RUBBISH who to date has only won a tiny little maiden 4th in a poor Dewhurst,4th in the Irish GNS 8th in St.James's Palace.
HYPE TALKING HORSE ONLY! |
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One other point Kirk you have said many times that the RPT was full of slow cr@p animals,take a close look the Dewhurst winner a 50/1 going out 80s Fencing Master running in listed races and not winning the great S'beck stuffed everytime he sets foot on a racecourse,where are the fast top class milers that were all in the Dewhurst?
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amazing that 24 pages of analysis has been devoted to such a slow boat!
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Steinbeck missed the Guineas through injury to a degree comfirming insider Prima Donna's claims he was very fragile and time has shown he was correct.
Who would have thought those proclaiming St Nick as the second coming over a mile on here might have demonstrated to them also later that he wasn't good enough to win the Triumph Hurdle (still there's always the July Cup) |
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Kirk[smiley:crazy]
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St Nick may have needed the run of course, with the benefit of that he could actually come 2nd in the Triumph Hurdle behind Zarkandar imo.
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Steinbeck back in third eric!!!
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Injuries affected his development I agree with you on that. St Nick however was just flattered by his RPT run against middle distance types (as mentioned around 15 months ago).
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Yes eric time has shown in a way both of those points are valid.
 I agree with you on Frankle btw! |
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As mentioned by whom Eric?
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[smiley:crazy]
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eric_morris Joined: 27 Jun 10
Replies: 2596 23 Jul 10 11:54 Think ben10 might have been the only contributor on the thread that caused kirk's demise. Kirk should have kissed ass kept stum like Post reporters on issues and he would keep everyone happy. He did go strongly against St Nick on a stupidly long thread on here and was strong on Steinbeck in singles and doubles then Canford Cliffs in a big treble with Big Bucks 3s, Kauto 7/4. Steinbeck won't be any good over trips further than a mile IMO though I believe he had/has potential turns out his injuries may have affected his career and in that respect prima Donna was right. As for Kirk wouldn't be surprised if he is on here claiming he won k's on Nadal at Wimbledon or something else made up. |
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Thank God you didn't have "four figures" on SNA for the Guineas, Eric, like poor old Kirk did.
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Trailed home last in the Hong Kong Derby on his last start
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