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The draw can be quite important in the French Guineas.
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If your looking in Kirk,you must of seen the races today and NMKT I am wondering what you thought,iyo who do you think will win?
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5-2 Steinbeck, 10-1 DT , i would back DT, yes.
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Push,do you think DT will beat SNA?
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Steinbeck may have Elusive Pimpernel to deal with at The Curragh, anyone thought about that? Dunlop's not keen on Epsom and may decide to get a mile Classic into him before moving up in trip..
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^ But he might well get that Gp1 at Newmk't ;)
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Prima: interesting to not today that O'Brien's unraced two to note are by Footsteps and Holy Roman Emperor, think you pretty much said it would be like that, obviously has no decent Montjeus or Galileos :)
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ben10,When you know how that outfit work its easy to read them like a book,I never take anything they say at face value,always look to see what they themselves will gain from any statement.
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ben10,With the other main colts dropping like flies for the guineas,have you made your mind up yet?Do you see SNA winning or is there someone else you like in the line up?Overall take out SNA it looks not the hottest GNS,as you know my outsider is HOF,a touch of rain which is forcast should help him along with the fav',what do you reckon?
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What's happened to Kirk??, hope he's ok
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Licking his wounds, then sorting out a few late "covers" to rescue his book.
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I think this Coolmore cynicism has gone a bit far on here. We all know they like to big up their sires, but from memory a large proportion of the horses they have talked about in glowing terms in the past have made justified it. Obviously, there will be one or two that won't make it down the years, but that's always the case with horses. To say that Steinbeck is just an average joe that's being used as a sounding board for a second-season sire is ludicrous imo. He is already virtually tied on form lines with a G2 winner on only his second start (following months out of action) and his close relative Meezaan looks all class, so could it just be he is an above-average colt with loads of ability from a family quickly on the up? Also, Footsteps was a colt with plenty of natural ability and so it was always going to be that he came up with something decent in his first crop. If he turns up at The Curragh, he'll have a serious rival in Elusive Pimpernel to handle and one or two others and we'll be able to judge him better then (although I'll still give him the benefit of the doubt as its only his third run and first start of the season). People might like to bash Ballydoyle, but for me they are all about history and legacy and Steinbeck is just one of those that makes the narrative of the flat season all the more interesting. Maybe its the nature of this forum that people need to be proved right or wrong about horses and rub other people's noses in it, but we all have opinions and that's what it's about, isn't it? The fact this is still going suggests Steinbeck is one of the more interesting 3yos around..
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Does it really?
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Prima Donna, it is being set up for St Nick now ... another Dewhurst danger removed today in Beethoven with the tell tale 'slight training setback' bullsh1t that affected Steinbeck. Think the Dewhurst form will hold up eventually but not if it gets in the way of St Nick from his own stable. Canford Cliffs was disappointing imo it doesnt look like he will be good enough over a mile though think he could get a third or fourth in what is looking a poor quality Guineas.
The Ballydoyle handler told his website, www.aidanobrien.ie: "Beethoven has met with a slight training setback and therefore is going to have an easy week this week. "Unfortunately this is going to rule him out of the StanJames.com English 2000 Guineas and he will now be aimed at the French 2000 Guineas instead." |
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Zilzal .. been having a break from this after Chelts spent too much time on here.
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Dewhurst form will still be represented by Xtension and Fencing Master.
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...unless Fencing Master meets with a bad scope....
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Xtension certainly didnt have the scope of Steinbeck for me and Fencing Master, well, he may be another Ballydoyle horse who there will be a 'bit left to work on' at this stage. Ballydoyle are removing any traces of the Dewhurst from this race my guess is Fencing Master is just running as a prep for other things.
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Kirk,I think that is a very fair assessment of the race,it is very much being set up for SNA as they will go for the TC if he wins the 1st two legs,btw Fencing Master is going to be the pacemaker,CC ran too fast imo the other day,if he does handle it without veering left,yes I too could see him being placed,I agree with you its not looking like the most outstanding field,good luck kirk with your choices.
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Fencing Master to make the running? How? He takes an age to pick up on last year's evidence..
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^ He doesn't need to 'pick up' just run fast from the beginning.
I don't think he will go off like a sprinter from the start, he will just ensure there is strong pace and move aside if SNA is coming through. |
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kirk st. moritz 20 Apr 17:30
Prima Donna, it is being set up for St Nick now ... another Dewhurst danger removed today in Beethoven with the tell tale 'slight training setback' bullsh1t that affected Steinbeck. Beethoven's antepost price for the Guineas suggested that he was never going to run at Newmarket. 50/1 available for a Dewhurst winner? Someone knew something... |
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A-T,Look back to page 13 of this thread read Slick'n'Smooth's comments you will then see that was the plan from a while ago.
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Yes that was real insight. Now wonder we're so cynical about Coolmore's press statements about training "setbacks"!
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mmmm ... gutted they left Steinbeck out for the slow ground no speed horse St Nicholas Abbey. Punters beware as these lot try to surpass Sea The Stars for stud reasons.
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..with the wrong animals... Montjeu in a Guines fk sake.
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Karma :-)
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Total joke their best miler in all likelihood wasnt in the race.
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Prima Donna ... stick to breeding mate ;)
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Exactly how rich did you get backing Steinbeck for the Guineas KSM?
At least Zaynar managed to sneak a place in the Champuion Hurdle ;) |
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For someone whose max bet is to win 800 quid on Cheltenham going each year you have a lot to say without having the balls to back it up. Your opinion is totally meaningless on here as you are not a player.
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AOB said afterwards that SNA was their fastest horse over a mile so they tried him in the Guineas rather than a Derby trial. If Steinbeck was faster they would have run him today.
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Wrong ... read this thread ... it is stud reasons he didnt run.
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We'll know more after the Curragh.
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At least my bet on the going came in :)
Still I'm sure Ocean Finance will top up your betting bank back to your £20 limit Kirk. Though you can keep telling us all you have thousands on as Im sure there will be someone who believes you :0 |
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To be fair Kirk was spot on about SNA, he wasn't racing comfortably for most of the way
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The Classics are now a bigger minefield than ever as the stable with the best record, Ballydoyle, chase Sea The Stars mantle with middle distance horses in the Guineas at the expense of their better milers. Sh1t prices for them as well. Bookies have shortened the 2nd tier of animals in the market up from 16s to 12s now also ....
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I think they could have rushed Steinbeck for the race but chose not to, probably sensible long term if he will be as good as we hope.
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Nowt wrong with Steinbeck .. slight setback my @rse.
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They dont give 2 hoots about punters and this SNA plan to try and surpass Sea The Stars failed miserably, trying to get a Monteu to win a Guineas on fastish ground over a trip too short for stud reasons ... awful awful rubbish spouted by O'Brien now .. too bad he cant admit he was desperate to win today but Oxx is his and his owners master still ... humiliating for them really humiliating.
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