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I have read the whole post - a lot of anxious posters with ante-post vouchers - some of them now very annoyed! If Coolmore thought Steinbeck was their best guineas horse they would run him at Newmarket. I suspect he is just a talking horse - whose status and reputation is out of all proportion to his ability. You have to admire Coolmore's knack for hype and publicity - they've made an attractive stallion out of Steinbeck without him actually achieving anything notable on the racecourse.
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they've made an attractive stallion out of Steinbeck without him actually achieving anything notable on the racecourse.
Some breeders may think that I would never use a horse like this never used his sire Footsteps as he is also unsound,my guess if Footsteps does not get a good one this year he will join Hawk Wing and One Cool Cat in Korea. |
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I think you've hit the nail on the head. Steinbeck has been talked up to help give FSITS the profile of a stallion who sires guineas horses. Of course Montjeu needs no hype - he's their #1 2000 Guineas horse because he's the one they think can win it. If they thought Steinbeck could win the Guineas he'd be running in it.
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Getting towards Nine Hundred posts about a Non Runner LOL
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The oustanding steinbeck :D
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im backing it at huge prices at anticipation of its miraculous "recovery" :-)
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Still can't understand those who think Steinbeck is just hype and can't see what he's put together on the racecourse, because for me his Dewhurst run was a big performance and also shows he's full of promise. I can list a number of reasons why SNA is worth taking on for this race and I stand by that position. There's more than just Coolmore horses running in the race.
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The same was being said about RVW last year...and he turned out to be ok...
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. There's more than just Coolmore horses running in the race.
Thats true...........but given Ballydoyle's choices in running surely you can see what the result is likely to be and the reason for those runners,to someone as astute as yourself it should be obvious. |
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Quick look at the market shows they have strong chance, I personally think he has less of a chance than that but I've never been one to say a horse can't win a race.
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Here's the ideal scenario to keep us all happy :-
Maiden O'** leaves SNA and Viscount Nelson in. Before the race, VN picks up a niggling injury that will keep him out for(enter any amount of short days here). In his place they run Steinbeck, giving them the excuse if he gets beat that he's running at short notice and his main aim is the Irish 2000gs anyway. That way you're 'appy, i'm 'appy, everybody's 'appy. Come on, you know it makes sense. |
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^^^ asterixed out name was Maiden O'Bu*lsh*t.
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Steinbeck will not run in the English 2000 the plan for a long time was the Irish 2000 where Coolmore/Ballydoyle can set the race up for him to win,you must also see the English 2000 is being set up for SNA regardless of what people think the TC is the plan this year.Try to look at whats in it for Coolmore and not just from a betting angle,look at the bloodstock world and what we saw last year,who has 'lost mares' and who wants those mares back!You have your answer,not rocket science.Think who controls Ballydoyle and what their business is.
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So in a nutshell all those that took a chance and backed Steinback in the 2000Gns AP have lost their money, and all those that laid Steinback have won ....well done the Steinbeck layers.
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Prima Donna ... horses that havent been wanted by them in an English Guineas for differing breeding reasons have been Holy Roman Emperor and now Steinbeck. If you were to summarize their viewpoint re off-spring of sires to avoid from a breeding perspective taking these 2 horses and any others into account which would you avoid backing antepost for an English Guineas in future. We are talking from a breeding perspective as it isnt just a case of trying to pick the best miler long range with them obviously.
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Get over yourselves and stop looking for conspiracy theories.
SNA was always the stable No.1 and Stenbeick was always a dodgy antepost betting proposition - all of which was made clear by umpteen posters right at the start of the thread. I take it Aiden O'Brien and John Magnier have now joined Simon Claisse in not being on your Christmas Card list KSM :D |
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Holy Roman Emperor was a dual G1 winner - Steinbeck finished 4th in a poor Dewhurst nothing to suggest he'll be champion of anything.
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unclepuncle 03 Apr 10:02
Get over yourselves and stop looking for conspiracy theories. Unclepuncle,There has never been a conspiracy theory with Steinbeck,Coolmore/Ballydoyle have let 'the Steinbeck' hype roll on,the reason for this is because they stand Footstepsinthesand and as he had his first runners last season he needed a talking horse,im sure plenty of mares have been covered this year with F.steps taken in by the Steinbeck hype,that is how Coolmore work remember its a business that generates a lot of money. Kirk,Holy Roman was taken out of training and sent to stud because George Washington was all but infertile,the mares in his book were top class and would be a asset to any young stallion Coolmore knew this and did not want to lose the income or the mares,If George W,had been normal at stud then Holy R,would of the contested the 2000. |
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Prima Donna ... I'm not sure you answered my question tbh. If they needed a talking horse then why didnt they need even better, a Guineas winner for Footsteps if Steinbeck is up to it? Is it purely oneupmanship hoping SNA can equal/surpass Sea The Stars costing Steinbeck his chance in the race?
Also would you have a set of rules re the breeding operation and their horses in a Guineas with regards their preferred winner of the race in recent/future history? Prima Donna 03 Apr 10:42 There has never been a conspiracy theory with Steinbeck,Coolmore/Ballydoyle have let 'the Steinbeck' hype roll on,the reason for this is because they stand Footstepsinthesand and as he had his first runners last season he needed a talking horse,im sure plenty of mares have been covered this year with F.steps taken in by the Steinbeck hype,that is how Coolmore work remember its a business that generates a lot of money. Kirk,Holy Roman was taken out of training and sent to stud because George Washington was all but infertile,the mares in his book were top class and would be a asset to any young stallion Coolmore knew this and did not want to lose the income or the mares,If George W,had been normal at stud then Holy R,would of the contested the 2000. |
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Those who go in early antepost are not affected by 'the plan' for Steinbeck unless it was made shortly after his first run as they were already on. Anything later and it is irrelevant other than for future involvement with the stables Classic hopefuls.
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Forgot to say it is very important because if they are going to chase Sea The Stars we may need to be very wary of taking their milers who have no chance of staying the Derby trip in a Guineas in the near future when there is also a top class horse with speed and a staying pedigree in the same yard. This is why I value your opinion on this from a breeding perspective. Cheers.
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Kirk, I didn't fully understand your question. If you are meaning trends for future betting, then I can't really say there are any. however, once you are aware of how Coolmore operate you can use this insight in your betting in future. For instance, in the next few weeks there is bound to be a Ballydoyle stable tour in the RP. Look out for a 2yo that will be by one of their more expensive first season horses (most likely HRE) it will be quoted as doing sparkling work at home, or really taking the eye. Something along those lines. Expect to see that it is being aimed at the top 2yo races at the backend and it wil prob win it's maiden by a wide margin. This horse will not nessecarily achieve much on the course but it will be mentioned in plenty of interviews and will always be entered up well.IMO this is the outline of a APo'B horse to lay for Classics. I am not saying that it def won't win, but that would be the 'trend' I would look out for. I expect that horse will be by Holy Roman Emp as he covered a very decent book of mares of good quality but his stock did not sell as well as might have been expected which will raise questions for breeders wanting to use him. Of course if Aidan has a wonder colt by the sire plenty of contracts will be signed before the horse shows he is just ordinary.
As for sacrificing Steinbeck for SNA and the value of a Gns for their sires, as I have said before SNA will be able to command a far higher fee than Steinbeck if he wins the TC or even 'just' the Gns/Derby double. Steinbeck if he won the GNS at HQ would onlt really go to stud at about 12k-15k. If SNA won the TC after being CH 2yo he would be more like 75k plus another big increase for Montjeu (who incidentally is the most expensive sire in Europe ATM) Steinbeck can still be a Gns winner for Footsteps, but an Irish one. SNA needs the Newmarket one to have a TC, Steinbeck just 'needs' a Classic/Gr 1 win. |
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Johnny Murtagh was gushing about a HRE colt that finished unplaced in a maiden at the Curragh :)
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a-t
Who would that be? |
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Thanks Prima Donna excellent reply. Have antepost covered other than breeding it is a complication that is coming more to the fore now especially after Sea The Stars stole the limelight last season ... wont be touching Footsteps for future English Classics thats for sure no matter how much potential they show if there is anything with speed and staying pedigree looks good also.
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essexguy 03 Apr 15:20
a-t Who would that be? Think it was called Emperor Hadrian |
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A-T, Thanks
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ffs, 865 posts on this ovehyped nonsense!
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And you made it one more....................
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I think it's accepted by even Prima that he's a good horse: right horse, wrong race imo ;)
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Whats that that usual three runner race at the Curragh in May ;-)
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I know a thread that will get on yer nerves
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Ben, Not sure about his being a good racehorse, but he certainly is a good marketing horse!
Zilzal, Dead right. and Oh Look, Footsteps has had a Classic winner from his first crop.....................and also proves Steinbeck is outstanding and could even be retired to stud and have comparisons drawn with his own 'illustrious' sire ;-) |
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Kirk, i did tell you , RH did not think there was much between CC and DT.
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Don't think either want a mile tbh
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I agree with ben10,both will be found out at HQ can't see CC running in the GNS TBH.
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DT might just get it , depends on the pace of the race, think the Irish Guineas would be better for him ,may get some cut in the ground
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Good God Push,if that happens could you see him beating the great Steinbeck!
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Hannon did mention the French Guineas so might even end up there.
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That was a boost for the Dewhurst form. I still think that could be the answer. Xtension and Fencing Master surely have more to come?
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