re: Tabor's comments
I don't think anyone at Ballydoyle seriously considered SNA to be a Guineas horse before the RPT. After the Beresford Stakes there was talk of the Derrinstown Stud Derby Trial. The RPT changed all that. SNA showed so much speed and such brilliant acceleration at Doncaster that Aidan suddenly realised that what he thought would be a Derby horse was now also a genuine Guineas horse.

Not exactly a Freudian slip, Kirk, merely a slight overstatement. I interpret Aidan's comments after the RPT to mean that SNA is 'very likely to be aimed at the Guineas' or that 'the Guineas is under serious consideration' (the latter being the Racing Post's own words). Why else would he have specifically mentioned the Guineas? He's not said anything since to change that.

Often you will be told by connections a horse will be aimed at the Guineas but never with him it has been a consider for everything routine.

Well I think when you have a dual purpose horse it is different to a pure non staying Guineas type. Assumptions may be ok then if they dont tell you he is aimed there but with the former you dont know as his prep may be affected the Derby aspirations also.

Push,dont be taken in with that rubbish,don't all of O'Briens GNS winners have the speed for the July Cup!Galileo could not win over ten after the Derby,so how the hell could he of won over a mile!Its all Ballydoyle tripe.

There is a difference between Galileo and SNA.
Galileo never really showed he had the speed to win a group 1 level at a mile. SNA has shown his ability to do just that and shown it so clearly that only the visually impaired could fail to have noticed the fact.
The real test for Coolmore is now they have a Montjeu, bred to appreciate middle distances that actually truly does have real speed, will they allow him the chance to show us all what he can do at 3 in the same way that John Oxx allowed Sea The Stars to do, or will they be more cynical and calculate how they can build the reputation of a number of potential stallions, by helping Fencing Master or Steinbeck the chance to win a classic, at the expense of missing the chance for SNA to earn everlasting glory by taking the triple crown.

Fuzzy,Do you think if Sea The Stars had won the St.Leger with all the same races won,except the Irish Champion,thus being a Triple Crown winner,do you think ANY of his mares would not be on his list?
And before you tell me breeders dont want St.Leger winners,remember he is very much the exception,The St.Leger on its own yes your right,the Guineas and the Derby then the St.Leger breeders will use those.

The Leger is now for plodders .. not even worth discussing tbh.

I could see Steinbeck going to Tally-Ho stud next year as a 3k sire,but don't worry I will never use him even if he is free!

Push,No I wont use him,I think he has done alright and he does get nice sorts but for me hes a touch too much,Im sending one to Champs Elysees at 10k that is the top for me.Danehill sire line is about the best when you come to the sales.

Highly speculative that James though.
Has anyone considered the Coolmore hype is around St Nicholas Abbey, having a son of Montjeu that people think will be able to beat the best of the milers is something very rare and they may go all out for the Derby with him due to them having a fair few for the Guineas and perhaps only one other currently for the Derby. If he was to win the Derby it would still be in peoples minds that he could have won the Guineas (he's already won over a mile anyway) and so Breeders may be quicker to use him than most Derby winners and other stoutly bred horses (even perhaps Montjeu) giving him a flying start to his stud career, just a thought...

I do agree with this as I see the misdirection for APOB already ...

Prima Donna 08 Feb 07:23


I dont think SNA is hype Coolmore/Ballydoyle almost play it down in fact and let people latch onto the Steinbeck clap trap.SNA will then come out as B.Doyle main hope


But not this as think Steinbeck will be good, though SNA may win I dont think it is such a foregone conclusion as you suggest....

....and take the GNS with ease,he is very much the GNS dark horse,Steinbeck is very much the hype horse I could see Steinbeck running in the Irish 2000 St.James Palace,Sussex,and as ive said plenty of times IF SNA wins the GNS I bet they take on the TC.

^thought you'd cram in another acronym would you? BH

thats good, talk is cheap though.

Aiden sure to send a few over to test him and set a fast pace.

ben

the trouble with the "Coolmore hype" is that it surrounded Istabraq before he won his first champion, was around King of Kings before he even ran and he hacked up in the Guineas, was around Galileo and Montjeu and Dylan Thomas and Stravinsky! The minor difficulty in trying to work out which APOB horse is under priced because of "hype" is that when one of theirs is built up well above what it has done, is that the blo0dy things go on and thrash all comers! That is why i have a decent bet on Steinbeck. It looks all hype at present but there is every chance he could still be very good and would be my 3rd choice for the guineas behind SNA and Awzanne.

In any event its hard to describe the fuss about SNA as "hype", he did win the best 2yo group one last year and in a style that made the opposition look second rate which they were not!

Hope he's right, the winner if so ;)

push 09 Feb 13:23


Just seen Hughes on ATR says CC will stay 1 mile no problem.

Maybe because IT WONT WIN......NOT AS GOOD AS RVW AND he was not sighted behind SEA THE STARS

Ben, maybe people think that the Dewhurst wont be the greatest race in the world, they finished in a heap and although he might be the best horse in the race some exposed animals were close up

Looks like Tirol disagrees:

TIROL1982 09 Feb 22:33
CRYOFTRUTH.....The Dewhurst Form will I believe prove to be very good form....The time was faster than the Older horses that ran the previous race.....And Remember these were only TYO's


I'm not sure on the level of form and the form won't be able to be used for future lines but will show that decent horses ran in this race and for me it was all about the manner of his defeat and the experience he's gained from that. It's weird every time I watch the race I think he's ran a massive race but for some reason most on here don't see it.