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Push,Yes I had him at a great price,but im not telling you how much!
Ben,Do you remember last year you thought Cape Blanco was poss' the next Rip Van Winkle,I said he would be a Derby horse,now you might accept I really do have a mole at B'Doyle! |
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His pedigree does not scream Derby horse ( Cape Blanco ). I have never needed inside info for O Briens horses.
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Oh yeah, how's Air Chief Marshall getting on?
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Push,I dont NEED them but they are very handy!
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Did they tell you about Footstepsinthesand before he won the 2000 Guineas ? ( PD )
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Ben,Air Chief,I understand is going along fine at the moment,hell be ready the run in the irish 2000,as pacemaker for the one who will miss NMKT.........you know who.
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Push,No because my man has been 'inside for just 18 months
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Aiden used to ride work on him, apparently.
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Fair enough, if you're right about Steinbeck running in Irish and not English Guineas then that's pretty impressive information. Personally I try and take stable comments with a pinch of salt because many a time I've seen them get it completely wrong, plans have to be relatively fluid with horses anyway.
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Yes look at the Dehurst result.
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aiden, didnt say anything new that he hadnt said before in the racing post today.
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Push,what I think will happen is this,SNA will run at NMKT if he wins(I cant yet see what will beat him)then they will try the TC route now what Coolmore want after all the hype with S'beck is a GNS win for Footsteps',so i think he will miss NMKT just a little set back then he will line up for the irish they dont want to get him beat and if they run him in NMKT he may not be ready for the irish as he is fragile,that way they have a live chance for the TC and Footsteps gets a GNS winner but they will not meet.
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^^^ and don't forget they can set the irish 2000 up just for S'beck
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Time will tell ( PD ) think i will go and back Workforce then.
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Push,do you have a dart bord at home with GNS runners names on?
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Stoute / O Brien , the best trainers when it comes to winning the 2000 Guineas.
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Push,yes you are right.
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Prima Donna surprised you think Steinbeck is capable of winning the Irish Guineas the way you have been putting the horse and the Dewhurst form down.
He is likely to go Irish Guineas after English like Mastercraftsman but after victory in the English. ;) |
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APOB will be deciding late March what goes where as he has already stated and by then quite a few pounds of form will have shifted around during their development.
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Kirk,you hadent thought that one through had you and missed it,you should know how B'doyle can and do set a race up and where better than the Curragh,and think of the end result for them,you are completely deluding youself if you think otherwise Steinbeck may with all the time and help win the Irish but he wont run at HQ.
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Kirk,Your silence is deafening,all this about Steinbeck you cant see the wood for the trees!Still there's always Canford Cliffs!
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Why would Steinbeck not run at HQ? It is normal for the stable to run their best milers in both Guineas.
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If SNA fails to perform on the day or is not good enough they would be foolish to leave an English Classic at Canford Cliffs mercy.
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Consider a scenario where R Hughes is right and Canford stays a mile. If SNA did not have the pace against the top milers he will be meeeting for the first time then he is looking for a Derby win where he is not guaranteed to get the trip. In the meantime Canford Cliffs wins the English Guineas and is odds on for the Irish Guineas, beats Steinbeck and Ballydoyle are looking for a Derby win with a horse out of the Guineas who may not stay as well as others, say Workforce and the end result is no Ballydoyle Classic winners.
I think they will want a guaranteed miler to be in the Guineas there on his own merits as well as SNA as just having one representative with a realistic chance of winning out of a stable so large and coming away with a doubtful Derby stayer and the 2nd fav for the Irish Guineas would not be worth the risk. |
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I think they will want a guaranteed miler to be in the Guineas there on his own merits
Kirk, Just remind which of the two has already won a Gr1 mile race? You say that CC could win at NMKT and then be odds on for the Curragh, beat Steinbeck and Ballydoyle have no Gns winner. But if CC is able to beat Steinbeck at the Curragh why do you think the result would be reversed at NMKT?I haven't said that Ballydoyle will only run SNA but I wouldn't think they will run him and Steinbeck. Purely because they don't want Steinbeck a beaten horse so early in the season and they don't want to lose a chance of the Triple Crown. IYO you think SNA won't stay the Derby trip, so if Aidan agrees, why would they miss the chance of winning a Classsic with him? He is a Gr 1 2yo and a GNS winner for Montjeu would be the icing on the cake as far as Coolmore are concerned.Steinbeck is not guareenteed to be sound enough to run in two GNS so it will have to be either or. NMKT is what is needed for any hope of the TC so that makes the most sense.Take into account as well that the Irish GNS could be nicely set up for Steinbeck to still get his win. Try looking at this from a wider perspective rather than a narrow betting viewpoint. |
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I think it's quite likely that they will run both SNA and Steinbeck in the Guineas, with Beethoven and Fencing Master heading over the channel for the French Guineas. In all probability Steinbeck will get a mile in Group 1 company (and it's important for his future stud career that they test him over a mile), but this is not absolutely guaranteed, and he may turn out to be best at 6-7f.
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Can see all 4 running, why give an ineperienced horse a run out at the course in a tough Group 1 if France is the planned, Fencing Master showed enough for me and Beethoven also deserves his chance and Aiden was talking him up recently.
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Ben is right imo, id like a price on three or more Ballydoyle inmates turning up at HQ, think ONE of SNA and Steinbeck may miss the race though
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Steinbeck can at least use the race to develop and try to win as much as Canford Cliffs can. Whoever has the benefit of an English Guineas run of APOB's which typically need the run first time out will have a big advantage in the Irish Guineas. See how much Mastercraftsman came on for his English Guineas run to storm the Irish ... madness to not run Steinbeck in the English 2000 Guineas. More chance of SNA missing it than him imo.
Prima Donna 12 Feb 08:03 I think they will want a guaranteed miler to be in the Guineas there on his own merits Kirk, Just remind which of the two has already won a Gr1 mile race? You say that CC could win at NMKT and then be odds on for the Curragh, beat Steinbeck and Ballydoyle have no Gns winner. But if CC is able to beat Steinbeck at the Curragh why do you think the result would be reversed at NMKT? |
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Kirk,Madness is it not to run SNA in the Guineas,I think the only madness on this thread is thinking Coolmore/Ballydoyle will skip the chance to win the triple crown,Just so Steinbeck can win the Guineas,as I keep saying running him in the Irish 2000 they can set the race up for him then they may win both GNS and then if Steinbeck is as good over a mile as you think he will then stand a chance of becoming CH' miler,meanwhile SNA can go on and pursue the TC,and from what we have seen so far I doubt Canford Cliffs will last the mile at HQ,his style of running and look at him a smallish neat type,if he does train on I could see him over shorter trips.I think you sound like someone who is now scared to death that you will have egg on your face in May,try as you might you cannot knock what SNA has done to date,IF SNA turns up at HQ it will be a peice of p1ss for him to win! I dont understand why you are quoting me because I was quoting you!
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PD, If Rock of Gib and High Chaparral had only gone for the Irish versions Guineas and Derby, the could have set the triple crown up for Hawk Wing. ;)
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There is No Hope and Bob Hope of them going for the Triple Crown with SNA .. you blew your credibility there.
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Push,You should know that the Rock was not expected to win the GNS he turned out to be far better than they thought,if they knew he was so good do you really think Sir Alex would of had him?Once Hawk Wing was 2nd the TC was over,they ran him at Epsom as they had nothing to loose,Funny that the stable jockey was not on the winner,Both you and Kirk dont seem to know how Coolmore/Ballydoyle work .
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I know that ROG, was well backed leading up to the Guineas, and look who rode him , their now stable jockey, not spencer , and you know who O Brien wanted after Spencer , it was not Fallon.
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The Rock had also beaten Hawk Wing as a 2yo.
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Push,I know and FYI it was not O'Brien who wanted Frank, but his Godfather,also do you remember the 2002 Breeders Cup mile,I know that RoG was traking Landseer and that he was to let him win the mile 'if he looked like doing it ,as Magnier wanted a top class Danehill horse at Ashford,to appeal to the Us markets,but when L broke his leg thats when the Rock went for it and lost nothing in his narrow defeat.He had nothing to prove as a stallion standing in Ireland thats how they work!
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Very sad about Landseer , he was not that far behind ROG as a racehorse and sired by Danehill
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Push,Your right it was very sad, it made me feel sick if you remember Landseer had won the Shadwell mile GR1 before the BC allowing him to win the BC mile Coolmore would then have Two Champions one in the US and one in Ireland both by Danehill,but if Landseer was never looking like he would win they had The Rock to take it,if you watch the race again you will see ROG is always traking Landseer,
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I saw both of them at Newmarket for the Dewhurst, very close finish, but the Rock showed a real will to win.
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Push,I was at HQ that day too and do you remember RoG in the paddock before he looked very colty both myself and the person who trained my flat horse both thought he would not train on,how wrong we both were!
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