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increasing the bet processing delay an absolute no-no, i can win with ATR but not if i have to wait 5 seconds for everone to cancel any semblence of value in left for slow pics players, how do i know this i tried playing the IR tennis markets and unless you have a camera in Serena Williams cleavage then you will NEVER be fast enough to get any value, the market makers courtside pull your trousers down with ease will only get matched when you have bet against the momentum.
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So allowing someone 1 second to place a bet into a market which is already up to 5 seconds old is okay?
Will actually a zero delay would be better :p |
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Let's examine this:
There's a 3 miler over jumps. A punter wants to back a horse a 3.5, so places his £100 bet into the queue. Some time later his bet is matched, then four seconds later he sees the horse fall. That's not particularly fair. |
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bacon you are correct , if the bets were but into the system with no delay it would be much more preferable than a longer delay, i am speaking as a ATR/RUK sky home player, so have no advantage that i am keen to preserve
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Oh no ! Not another crusade in pursuit of " fairness". If you don't like betting in running - DON'T DO IT.
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surely no one in their right mind bets on in running horses because they feel it's fair.
....and mug punters couldn't give two hoots anyway about a fair market . |
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There is no reason why Betfair cannot invest in the technology required so that ATR and RUK can speed their pictures up. A couple of months ago on the horse racing forum I suggested to Pythia that Betfair should speak to RUK about paying the extra costs to use the quicker BT route on a permanent basis that was used for a few days last year during routine maintenance.
The pictures were as quick as Turf Tv but RUK were told by BT that there would be significant extra costs to use this route permanently. Pythia was going to speak with RUK that week and I suggested he should make enquiries regarding this matter. |
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why do people think betfair care? As long as it is not stopped they dont care, the same people will continue getting fat with or without quicker pictures.... That money wont go back into the pool
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I never really understood why a 1 sec delay was created for horse racing. Does anybody know the reasoning behind this?
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They says it's because things happen too quickly in horse racing.
Yet in football there can be a corner at one end of the pitch and withing 5 secondsa goal at the other end. Imagine the carnage with a 1 second delay on football! |
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The in running markets can never be totally fair its the nature of the market, but what in life is? Lets ask the magician about the city and the financial markets across the world?
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The vast majority of people who bet in-running on horses whether with fast or slow pics don't want an increased bet delay as they know it is unworkable. We want the fastest possible pics for all, that is the only way to create a level playing field.
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The 1 second delay is there to protect course players from course players. It gives them an additional second to cancel offers and is a reward for putting up liquidity just like the 7 sec or so ** on tennis.
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More rubbish from feck!
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A convincing counter example wiped-out.
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Feck is correct, the 1 second delay protects no-one except those with the fastest pics.
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How can that possibly be?
Withoutdelays, what person in his right mind would ever leave a bet on order? |
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Do we think betfair will make more money out of creating a level playing field on horse racing or building there new innovative virtual racing products??
I level playing field would be great for the current winners and bad for the current losers, imo |
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Wiped-out 13 Nov 14:48
I level playing field would be great for the current winners and bad for the current losers, imo How so? (genuine Q btw) At it's simplest:- If a regular loser is backing horses at 5.0 IR when he was previously getting matched at 4.0, surely his/ her money will last longer? |
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Thats only good for betfair imo
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Correct, more churn = more profit for Betfair and less for the fast pic hooverers.
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frog
your 3 recent happenings are not substantial enough to carry weight to change the status quo. So what is your motive to regurgitate this thread? You appear to be trying to drum up support for something that you have had your chance at, and frankly, failed - although I admired yours and magicians tenacity at that time Is it unfair - yes Will it be banned - no Now, if you want BF to create this 'less than one second' from live - then change your thread to something more positive |
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I would think the 1 sec delay in racing / 5 sec delay in football are set that way to make it easier for Betfair to administer those markets - i.e protecting the bloke on the suspend button, nothing to do with protecting punters. They don't want to be manually settling bets where possible
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Since the beginning of this week a horse that unseats its rider (by falling or elsewise) cannot win the race.
WRONG WRONG WRONG. Horses have won. AP McCoy being one that did it. |
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vax, I think you need to do a bit of research.
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for a lot of sports with poor liquidity it needs a market maker, who leaves up prices. If the delay of the TV pictures is more than the BF delay they cant price it up. And it liquidity dies.
This has happened in a few sports I have seen. It would be nice to see bf being proactive about getting the TV delays reduced but until then I think for sports with low liquidity (where putting up prices up between action is pointless) the bf delay should be higher than tv delays (for majority of the public) If that makes sense.. |
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How do you "reduce" the delay?
(please correct me but..) 1 second up 1 second down then, depending on the provider, to your home. Also, betfair will not invest in the technology. The best analogy I can give is that my friend, Randy Boyd, created Cargo Records. 90% of what he sold were albums he distributed. 10%, he invested in albums he knew he would recoup based on demand. The person that bought it from him invested too much and destroyed Cargo in roughly 3 years. Randy taught me a lessson in business which is the distributor rarely goes out of business. Betfair are happy in their stance as distributor and investing in making their distribution system better. They are not in the television sector. |
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If Betfair don't invest to allow ATR and RUK to speed up their pics or to negotiate the rights to transmit the live track feed via Flash then eventually the only people playing will be the track players in the VIP boxes.
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SHAPESHIFTER 13 Nov 16:53
Also, betfair will not invest in the technology. Betfair showed a keen interest in getting involved with the formation of a new racing channel when atr1 went belly up. Sadly the move was kyboshed by the BHA. Also, I would suggest contrary, Betfair are at the forefront of technology investment. |
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Sorry, as I said, how does one "speed up" the 1 second up / 1 second down which equals 2 seconds?
So if betfair invest in RUK and ATR and get it to our homes in a 1/10th of a second, you are still 2.1 seconds behind the track. As far as the "VIP" crowd, let them eat each other. And I still go back to one point of if you don't like the conditions of a betting or investment situation, then skate clear. If you went to a poker table and were playing against three friends who had known each other since grade school, would you remain at the table? |
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Fair point, Muqbil. And, yes, they are investing and licensing.
But I also see them not wanting to be "responsible" for transmission that would be advertised or promoted as "the fastest off course pictures." |
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Turf Tv pics are less than 1 second behind live. There is no reason why ATR and RUK pics could not match this with Betfair's investment.
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Their investments in the USA and suggestions that they are looking to float to raise capital suggest they may get involved if the internet technology exists. Markets for in running betting could increase massively if real live pictures were available to all Betfair users.
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Agree entirely, the net is not the ideal vehicle for broadcasting pictures where speed is the primary need!!
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Whole thread is twaddle.
1) Of course those at home know they are at a disadvantage 2) Hardly an issue for mainstream press 3) Premium charge isnt because betfair dont like winners Solution , dont bet in running or make the effort to be more upto speed. Its defeatest to complain about fast pic players , if you cant be bothered to arm yourself with the best tools then give up or lose |
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1) is incorrect for a lot of recreational punters particuarly ones new to the BF site and in a way the single most important long view customer.
**and I'm largely in agreement with your view Lippy if not your style of argument. |
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frog2, when you say "all markets", which markets do you mean?
I only see horses being the main contender since the event has the most finite time-line compared to Tennis, football, etc. Jack, you say "less than a second" behind live. How much faster do people want it? |
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Some people seem very shortsighted, I hope the people running Betfair have more foresight.
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Customers should be aware that:
1. transmissions described as "live" by some broadcasters may actually be delayed; 2. the extent of any such delay may vary, depending on the set-up through which they are receiving pictures or data; Its there in black and white , no excuse for new betfair users imo. Anyone new to the site and interface , jumping straight into inplay betting , deserves all they get |
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Only trading shop players have access to Turf Tv. ATR is over 4 seconds behind terrestrial BBC and Channel 4. I would like to see ATR as quick as Turf Tv.
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