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At least you admit to being a mug punter and a hooverer.
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scoop6,
no offence, but how after laying odds on chances on the floor for 2k are you only winning 32k in a year. Have you had some very bad days or do you only play an odd race or so ? |
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whats scary is that the scoopster is pontificating to others.......
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fact 1 - i won just short of £400 grand oneday at the races so stacking shelves at Tesco is not on my agenda.
I take it this was when you won the scoop 6? |
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It would be good to get some bf input into this debate.
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This subject was done to death about a year ago... nothing has changed... so why 'revisit ' it...boring or what ?
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Lippy,
betfair is in terms of a high user interface quite unique in betting terms, I believe it would be sensible to protect new custom as much as possible and therefore would think it reasonable to have higher profile warning of the problem - regardless of it being a non issue to me directly. I have no interest in stopping IR betting, far from it but the dodgier the perception of the 'act' the more likely a heavy handed approach to it's resolution.. 2 sub points not for Lippy - horse racing betting is in terminal declline as a % of the betting industry long term so can we stop using that as the yardstick for betting full stop. and can Feck stop pretending that a) the PC is aimed at redressing a 'perceived' ** advantage and that being a good studier of the dark art of horse racing betting (and it is one) is somehow more virtuous than trading cricket betting in running with no personal advantage - as that's what I read everytime you post about PC regardless of your intention. I was just thinking that was a good post until I got to the last para brentford. IMO the most important thing for betfair is to attract clients and hang on to them yet they claim that through the pc they're only taking enough to allow them to attract new clients to replace the ones pc payers have lost them. So, GENERALLY SPEAKING, they allow clients to ** dimmer clients, the dimmer clients get fed up and leave, betfair spend money to attract new marks and recoup the money by taxing the **s. I don't for a second believe they're only breaking even on the pc but it still sounds like a pretty imbecilic strategy to me. I'd bet the ratio of ir winners to pre-event winners is massive compared to the ratio of betfair's ir take to pre-event take. WITF is it all about? It's only a matter of time before this artificially created glut of 'professionals' bring the tax man down on everyone's heads. To make a strange situation even stranger, the **s are the most outspoken critics of betfair and, despite paying less of their winnings in commission than anyone else, they're actually claiming they they're the ones being **ed. You could not make this up. |
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Feck who are you calling **s? Surely not all **s are IR players and not all IR players are **s?
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GENERALLY SPEAKING
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Incidentally, I don't blame anyone for taking advantage of betfair's built in **s, I just don't get betfair's strategy.
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"to ** dimmer clients". All betting is about one group of people taking money off "dimmer" people.
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The power (unfortunately)lies with the Gambling Commission.
They see nothing wrong with In Running at all,even on a moral issue. |
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Which bracket of dimness do you fall Artie
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I don't believe that any Govt. will allow forever any form of gambling where some players have a significant edge in "technical" terms i.e pictures, and nor should it, imo.
A level playing field where everyone has an equal chance of winning or losing depending on skill and chance will be acceptable. If that level playing field can't be achieved then you can expect a correction through taxation or licencing. I therefore fully agree with frog's original posting and others in support of it. Arguing that there is no difference between a "technical" edge and a "skill" based edge will not hold up. It is only a matter of time. |
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Arguing that there is no difference between a "technical" edge and a "skill" based edge will not hold up.
There may not be as clear cut a distinction between these two as you might like there to be, for example it takes a good deal of skill to write an effective bot, which I assume you might describe as providing a "technical" edge. For another example consider a person who writes a computer programme that anylises form, what kind of edge would that give him? In any case it's neither here nor there, the government doesn't give a t0ss about gamblers as long as no-one is breaking the law and it never will. Quite right too. |
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aye robot
No, I don't think that writing an effective program for a bot can be put in the same bracket as consistently faster pictures, although I can see how you might consider otherwise. Unfortunately, i wish you were right about the Govt not interfering but the degree to which any Govt does these days would lead me to believe that as many things that are less controversial have been subject to Govt interference, then I wouldn't be as sanguine as you. |
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How would you demonstrate that someone's form analysing programme gave them an edge? It would be fairly easy to demonstrate to any sane person outwith the GC that having 7 seconds to cancel your offer (while the person trying to take it was stuck behind the clock) was unfair.
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but you've never managed to demonstrate that to anyone on here feck
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my mistake, you are labelling anyone who disagrees with you insane so nobody on here counts
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When betfair and flutter first started up it was a miracle the government allowed them to get away with not charging both backer and layer 9% on turnover. We should not assume the tories will be as sympathetic.
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Feck- genuine question:
What's this 7 second "**"? The IR delay applies to canceling orders too, so how can I cancel an order faster than someone can take it? |
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No Eldrik, I was labelling anyone who thought it wasn't an advantage to have 7 seconds to cancel their offer (while the party trying to match it was stuck behind the clock) insane. Clearly you qualify.
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Orders are cancelled immediately aye-robot.
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Unless you're stuck behind the clock.
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so can you just run it by me one more time, how it is unfair to anyone if the rules are the same for all users?
or are you just going to differentiate between different users betting habits and point out that some betting habits are less sensible than others? |
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The rules were the same for everyone when the clock was being beaten. Are you suggesting it was a fair cop being on the wrong end of that?
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that was a loophole which betfair closed when it realised it was being exploited - it was never betfairs intention to have it available
the system of being able to cancel your bets instantly but have to wait a few seconds to get a new bet into the market is intentional, and the vast majority are happy with this system |
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Whether it was intentional is irrelevant to your point. The fact is, that loophole was open to anyone just as the ir market maker advantage is.
What you mean is, the vast majority of those who are aware of the MM advantage are happy to exploit it and the rest are ignorant of it and so indifferent. Does that make it any fairer than the clock beating? |
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Pinching money off IR punters allday, great day at cheltenham more of the same tomoz. how did you go on today feck plenty of IR bets lol..
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feck, this argument always comes to the same conclusion - you see an advantage/disadvantage that nobody else agrees exists
do you think that people who stick their card in a cash machine, ask for £50 and then walk off forgetting to take the money are at a disadvantage to those canny individuals who are exploiting their advantage of remembering to take their money when they withdraw it? what name should we give to this advantage? can we start a campaign for cash machines to be made fairer? |
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Do you really want to go on record as saying the ir market maker advantage doesn't exist Eldrick? If a bookmaker buried the words "requests for online ir bets will be responded to withiin 10 minutes and accepted or rejected at our discretion" would that make them waiting 10 minutes be fair? If you answer yes then you're a clown. If you answer no then tell me at what time interval it does become fair.
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Spoke to some very shrewd judges today at Cheltenham about this subject, they could not stop laughing at this thread.....
People like you feck need to stop beating yourself up about this time delay problem, as far as myself and quite a few others are concerned we all play on a level playing field. As long as you are prepared to go the extra yard to gain an advantage you really have got limited intelligence |
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scoop, if my intelligence was that limited I'd have been there with you.
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Dont know what you are trying to achieve by banging on about this....
so you would rather stayed at home than come to Cheltenham????? typical stats man who cant except the reality.... |
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What exactly are you trying to achieve Feck ?
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You sound like the one who's bangin on. Worried about something?
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This scoop6winner seems like a decent sort of bloke. Amazing how winning so much can suddenly make you disciplined isn't it?
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Not worried at all Feck !!! we are riding on the crest of a beautiful money making wave at the minute. Happy days
What you want will not happen in the forseable future!!! Give it a rest and find something constructive to debate!!! You are right what you are saying but you cant do anything about it!!! IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT DO IT!!!! |
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Like i said before i am an everyday bloke who used to look for winning systems but i was indisciplined and ended up all ways chasing.
one day i got lucky which made me think about the big picture rather than relying on stats and judgement i decied that actual fact is a sure thing !!! Hey presto it works...simples is that not common sense logic? |
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feck, do you understand that the interaction between bookmaker and client is very different to two betfair users interacting on betfair?
a bookmaker stopping a bet, watching some further action, and only taking it if it suits - is different to what you describe happening on here? do you not get the difference? |