Cheltenham Festival
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Josses Hill
Josses Hill
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Replies: 326
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Fingers crossed he doesn't return on a Cheltenham flatbed trailer.
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And I dare say they don't care what you think.
Nor do I, but I certainly care what they think,and watching the horse I think its just what he needs. Paulo,dont be worried about him losing today,as said before that was a million miles away from what it will be like on the Tuesday,should be different ground and certainly different distance. And you are correct his jumping weren't that bad. |
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the only reaosn he'd go for arkle is because if, and thats a huge if, he gets it together on the day hes classy enough to finish second. but thats not putting the horses best interest first. he is NOT ready for an arkle, nowhere near
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Well they obviously disagree with you.
Best accept that,after all they know the horse better than any of us do. Although I think I'm a bit closer than some on here,as I can see what they are saying makes sense. Hes certainly jumped better in his races when the pace has increased. |
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not good enough to place in a 5 runner arkle, whats the prizemoney for finishing 5th.....
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i think i can base my judgements well enough based on what we've seen on the track
and that strongly tells me he should not be running at cheltenham in any of the novice chasers. they like the horse, of course they'll defend him this reminds me of the oscar whiskey should not have run in the tingle creek debate |
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Last year, Valdez's connections picked up £4020 for finishing 5th.
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Well im leaving it at that,we could go round and round all night.
Lets leave it to the horse to get what they think are his ideal conditions and talk about it after, I think that's fair on the horse myself. |
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He's frightened and he's guessing - on the evidence so far given the pace they'll be going on quickish ground he could well simply run through one at Cheltenham or if he takes off outside the wings - as he has done on several occasions so far in his short chasing career - he'll turn one hell of a somersault.
He is going to have to improve freakishly in short space of time to win a normal Arkle on evidence so far - if he wasn't trained by Henderson he'd be 20's plus. |
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If gerraghty wants to go for it, that's alright for me. I much prefer his attitude to ricci's. BG charges at them on a rodeo horse, and ricci runs away from uds with a supreme winner. That's the spirit.
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That was at Greames comments, although Ekbalcos last post was pretty amusing as well.
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just rewatching his chases he has so many misunderstandings with geraghty, he asks him big on a few fences and the horse just takes off when he wants. he took off half a mile from one today and jumped massive at loads of the fences. that surely signals he's either scared, or feeling something.
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what's amusing about ekbalcos post? if this was another horse who finished 2nd in a supreme and has jumped like he has to date he'd be a bigger price no doubt.
third intention sets an okay standard but you'd have expected josses class to have prevailed today - it didnt because his jumping was erratic and poor |
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You need to ask??
Yeh,you probably do. Hes not even remotely looked like falling, running through one or doing some sort of somersault You people who love having a pop at a horse who clearly has not had his ideal conditions, simply make me laugh,aint you got something positive to say about other horses instead?? Reason he did not win today,and I firmly believe they had doubts about winning,was that it was on tacky ground over half a mile more than he wants to go. Forget who beat him its largely irrelevant. Why don't you just let the horse run in the Arkle with conditions his connections say suit him best?? Is it that difficult??? |
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because i think that can do serious damage to the horse!! jumping fences at pace around cheltenham is josses hill's ideal conditions????
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if you think they are his ideal conditions you are either heavily pocket talking or plain blind
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Well that's what his connections say,so you can laugh as much as you want.
Their opinion counts, yours,mine and anyone elses.....dont. Do you not agree that he has jumped better when the pace has increased in his races Wicket?? |
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Just to throw my two cents in, is that we don't know what his ideal conditions are yet.
Cheltenham may bring out the best in him, or he could run like he did again today. Don't know until you try. So many are labelled "spring horses", Holywell being a prime example on here. People forgive his poor runs, but he is a spring horse, so its OK for him to run cr@p until Cheltenham. Josses could be another one, as his best performances last year were in the spring. |
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Yes ive backed him,but that was start of season and ive virtually given up cos I know how good UDS is.
But I am willing to see the horse over what I think would be his optimum,and that happens to be what his connections say as well. And then I will judge,i don't see why others cannot do the same to be honest. |
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only my opinion matters when it comes to betting! if we took everything trainers and jockeys said as true we'd know most winners of races and wouldnt need to watch races/read form.
his jumping has been okay at points budd but if you seriously think the horse is near ready for a strong pace from the off arkle, then you must be pocket talking. i'm sorry but you must be. he was strongly ridden out to beat solar impulse, couldnt match ptiz zig, and has now been turned over by one of the biggest rogues in training getting 11lb. so 2m4f on soft ground isnt ideal, but he was getting a lot of weight and third intention is a weak finisher. he should be aimed at next years champion hurdle |
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I dont think he jumped badly, maybe not as fast as you would had wanted. Clearly he doesnt jump quick enough to win an arkle at the moment but he has cheltenham form and bar one horse the race is pretty open.
Also i doubt chemical had him anywhere near 100% today. |
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wrote that before seeing your post.
the reason i 'will not do the same', as if we should all be sheep anyway, is that it is not right to run him imo! he clearly isnt made for it. |
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So im pocket talking cos I disagree with you? really?
Ive just told you ive given my bet up cos of UDS,and everyone on here knows what I think of that horse!!! Come on mate, I am just giving a horse the chance to prove hes not as bad as some make out,and maybe a lot better. Just let him do what his trainer says will suit him. |
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budd your @rse must be in tatters because you must have sat on a billion fences in your time.
take a view rather than 'he might be good, he might not' thats the whole point of gambling. i'm not gonna sit here saying he might run well. he shouldn't be running. agree to disagree. |
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Maybe wicketd has layed him and he's pocket talking
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Certainly going over the top on the horse, anyone reading from the outside would had thought the horse had hit every fence and fallen twice before
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I agree entirely with Wicketd's sentiment re the horse's jumping - he should not be running in an Arkle on what we've seen. I am genuinely amazed by some of the comments, as I was after Doncaster. The same thing is happening all over again - the immediate response on here was that he hadn't got a hope in an Arkle, but then after connections gave their PR spin comments, people are warming to him maybe getting his ideal conditions at Cheltenham. It's just bizarre. He looks frightened and keeps making different mistakes throughout his races - it's not even like you can focus on one thing and try to train him to improve that. The idea that he will jump better round Cheltenham against much better, faster horses, and with one of the best 2m novices we might well ever have seen, is just crackers.
For what it's worth, Henderson and Geraghty were also telling us that Grandouet had a chance in last year's race despite his indifferent form beforehand. And he was a much better jumper than Josses Hill. I would also make the point that I love this horse, and would be genuinely worried for his wellbeing in the Arkle. I haven't layed him and have honestly no worries about him beating those that I have backed. The Oscar Whiskey point that was brought up earlier is a pertinent one in my mind - we know these wonderful horses are at risk every time they run but there is a difference in risking them when the evidence suggests they could be vulnerable. |
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haha
 maybe i am going a bit over the top but i think its the plain wrong race to run him in based on what we've seen. i know cheltenham is the pinnacle but think its unfair on him |
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completely agree tom, especially about the erratic jumping. theres so many issues with his jumping not just one flaw they can iron out
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Wicket, hes a novice chaser with 3 chases to his name,2 of which were further than the Arkle distance.
His trainer has said he needs a totally different race to what hes had so far. So therefore I don't know how good he is,or could be. I took a view start of the season and backed him,and if it weren't for UDS I would still be fairly confident. |
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and with one of the best 2m novices we might well ever have seen, brave words tomdeane.
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Of all the novices I have seen,i would be less worried about JH than all of them.
If anything hes too safe. UDS, who I think could well be the best 2m chaser in training,worries me more to be honest. |
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He might not win of course but UDS has already posted performances that mark him out as something truly special.
I have also backed Clarcam for a place and would back him in a match bet with Josses Hill every day of the week! I think the 'novice' chaser thing gets banded about too easily to be honest. Yes, any horse should improve as it gains experience in any discipline, but every year we also see countless examples of horses that look naturals over fences, and that's what you need to be to reach the very top. UDS, Clarcam, Valseur Lido and Ptit Zig all look like they know what they're doing and enjoy jumping fences. Josses Hill looks like he's unsure at every fence and keeps making different mistakes. Even when he's safe and sound he spends an age in the air, which is not something I've ever seen a Grade One two-mile chaser do. |
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I agree with Budd about JH being too safe. He gave far too many fences today too much air. I don't think he's got any hope of winning the Arkle. Don't know how much to supplement him for Churdle but he's more chance in that that than Hendersons other 2 IMHO.
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good point shockster. just think he needs a season back over hurdles beforehand tho, might balloon every one
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If he fails in the Arkle/Aintree over fences, nothing wrong at all with going back to the Champion Hurdle route, but I don't think you can give up on him now with just 5 weeks to go.
I maintain that he could well be a spring horse, where he will be at his best on good ground going at a fast pace. To throw the towel in now, when he hasn't had those conditions would be premature - you only get one chance at an Arkle. If he does well, then great, if he doesn't then that opens up the hurdle route - even the Aintree Hurdle or Punchestown 2 miler vs The Fly and Jezki if he is that bad in the Arkle. I don't think anyone could argue that he has jumped well, there was one point today where he took off miles too early, but never looked like falling. But he has a huge engine as proved last year, and if (and that's a big if) they can make it click with his jumping, he is at the least worth his place in the lineup. |
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Oh,I have no dobt that UDS looks a real natural and that some are more natural than others,no doubt at all.
I would also say that JH has not looked a natural at times,but I will keep coming back to this jumping better at pace,which I think JH has shown. BG must think he's doing that as well as they are saying he needs a real good gallop,and he ain't had that yet. Look,he may fail in the Arkle whatever but at least let's let him try before rubbishing him , and the way he jumps he's hardly gonna come a cropper imo. |
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What is a spring horse ? a horse that likes less testing ground ?
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Last year, Valdez's connections picked up £4020 for finishing 5th
there will be handicaps at stratford in the summer he,ll get his ground aswell  |