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Pinatubo
Pinatubo
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I think it is self explanatory Figgis. This is the figure they ran to in the race compared with their official rating. Using Indomito as the base as they did.
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If that's the case, what are the figures you have put in brackets?
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You mean they ran 164lbs below then, not above?
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Don't forget this was the greatest racecourse performance in the history of BHA and Timeform
Really don't know what you're on about here. So they're saying almost every single runner was below its best and Frankel still comes out very high. Just imagine if they had more of them running to form and Indomito improving, which is almost always the way they usually rate a race, Frankel would've been even further off the scale  . I'd say they've been quite conservative. So you're saying they should have rated Indomito below his best and the rest even further below par? On what grounds? |
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Yes, sorry, that is the figure each horse ran below their official rating, hence the minus sign.
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You don't find in unusual that the horses running down the centre of the field ran an average of 5lbs below form and the horses running down the flanks ran an average of 2 stone below form.
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And that was almost equally spread.
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But the way you're talking about it makes it sound like they were spread right across the track Hunt Cup style. They were racing in a pretty narrow width of each other, everything well off the rail, that was until they all tried to go with Frankel about 3 out, where the race became a procession and the rest started to spread out as they folded.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey37nrOrXac
Head on view there. Anyone claiming track bias is really clutching at straws on this occasion. |
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Actually, when Frankel started to hit full stride, which came after Queally was being held in by JOB and had to give him a noticeable bump out of the way (just to further dispel any notion that Coolmore were doing their best to aid Frankel), he hangs over to the far side of the course away from the part which you're saying was favourable. I will give the much maligned Nick Mordin a mention here as he was the first person I saw write about how horses that are quickening often stray off a true line at the same time, whereas previously they were only mentioned as hanging when they were presumed tired, which also can happen obviously.
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I cannot find it on Youtube now. I haven't watched it for years. It was a production by Attheraces. Fortunately I did save a copy on my computer. Never mind I will leave it for another day. I should have known I was banging my head against a brick wall here.
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I should have known I was banging my head against a brick wall here
The point is, why would you even want to continue to attempt to change my opinion? I think Frankel was brilliant, you obviously don't. You know why I do and I know why you don't. You've mentioned the same points for the last 8 years or so. Why can't you just be content with what you believe? Just as I am when I see Mrs Brown's Boys gets big ratings but I think it's a pile of steaming cack. To just give your opinion is fair enough, but you're constantly trying to influence anyone who has a different opinion on Frankel, not just me, I've seen it with others. Very, very strange, in my view of course  |
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frankel is the best ive seen and hes a record breaker at stud, fastest stallion to achieve 30 group winners in the northern hemisphere in the history of the pattern, visinari was acknowledged as horse with great potential by someone i know who follows times, the fact this didnt materialize, wouldnt make me think
hes got that completely wrong, things dont always pan out the way you think they will, hes made a lot of money from gambling, just watched this years derby and i think japan should of won that race and japan has that all important nick its dams sire is danehill. how good the form is remains to be seen. |
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Roadrunner forget the name of the horse for a minute. Would you be happy if you knew that the biggest stable/stud in Europe, owned by bookmakers, made an agreement with a top owner not to run their horses against his best horse knowing the horse in question was by their top stallion? Including the potential betting and ante post implications?
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Well said 'Akak', but i think it will be wasted on 'Figgis' - a one dimensional poster who I've on 'ignore' since Anno Domini.
Figgis is annoying at times but he brings a lot more here than you do with your regurgitated press releases with ", I understand" tagged on the end. Utter buffoon. |
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Figgis is annoying at times
 Surely not, A_T.  |
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brigust1 i dont have an answer to your question, most people would not be privy to such information, im always sceptical about persons who claim to have
inside knowledge of yards and gallops, i know you are well connected in the racing community, in respect of frankels rating im happy to accept the rating given by the experts, brigadier gerard was an exceptional horse, before my time. always worth reading what figgis posts, even if you dont agree with his opinion sometimes, i find the mechanics of how the form works in the group races little bit more nuanced than handicap races. |
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Don't worry roadrunner, no problem, you will be able to read all about yourselves soon. The book is nearly finished and I know the plan is sometime next year. I hope you will all find it worth the wait.
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Lovely day at stables then at the races today celebrating the great horse. The result marginally favourable for Pinatubo, definitely not a negative, though connections of the second do believe, at least they did before today's race, that his last run was not his true form. I'm still out on that one.
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Yeh, Pinatubo has been rated higher than Frankel was as a juvenile by the BHA - 128 against 126.
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Monoski didn't do much for the Pinatubo form when he ran behind Wichita . Until there is proof to show otherwise it might be wise to rate Pinatubo on his Goodwood win . That form is very good but would not make him a 4/11 shot in The Dewhurst .
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Hi all, hope you all happy and healthy
, Pinatubo an exceptional 2yrld on ratings(134) but I have some doubts about those behind him, the exception is Armory beaten 9 Lengths then running a good race in the Qatar Prix Jean-Luc Lagardere Sponsorise Par Manateq (Group 1) beaten just a length, would indeed make you stand up and look hard?, but I figure it could just be that Armory enjoyed the softer ground on the later occasion? but time will tell , obviously hard to knock the Pinatubo rating, and like all,I look forward to seeing how things turn out next year. A proven champion 2yrld he is, but hard to believe he could better his rating with age 3yrld (who knows?) I did like Highest Ground debut the other week at leicester, but this one got a long way to go yet!(I do hope he does mind, thinking Derby) |
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Explode or implode in The Dewhurst? The bookies thinking the former; 4/11 a good price given his last victory, all thing being equal. Wichita - who?
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12/1 Pinatubo looking good Guineas
Shade odds-on in a place now Just hope trains on |
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If I had 12/1 for the Guineas, I would be looking to lay off at this stage. The Dewhurst win looked to be some way below his National Stakes performance: perhaps the exertions of a long season have taken their toll. He's a strong two-year-old type, not terribly big, not necessarily the type to improve over the winter. But, of course, he may not need to improve at all to win the Guineas!
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did people really believe pinatubo was going to win by another 9 lengths on that ground from that draw
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roadrunner46 • October 14, 2019 11:49 AM BST
did people really believe pinatubo was going to win by another 9 lengths on that ground from that drawCrazy No, but I still reckon he ran about half a stone below his Curragh form. The ground was probably a factor (he'd never previously raced on anything slower than 'good' ground) and he's been on the go since the spring (made his debut in early May), so he may have been feeling the effects of a long season. Whether he's still ahead of the bigger scopier colts next May remains to be seen. Like I said, he doesn't need to improve on the Curragh performance to win an average Guineas. |
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i dont see pinatubo as a 3yo . last 2yo race of the season the guineas and all that . well keep him out of the preps cos slow ground will dent him . i would take him fresh to the guineas , then come with a breeders cup mile agenda
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i would go guineas fresh , break sussex stakes with a prep and then travel to france in prep for a bc mile
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He's not wintering in Dubai instead doing light work in preparation for 2000G. Let's hope he's still head and shoulders above the others come 2nd May. He's 11/10 fav.
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