ground was like concrete

It's this sort of garbage that has led to ridiculous over watering policies

I understand your point Swagger but when you look at the facts they are that he has run 3 times over 10f. The first time he sat close up and was run down by Fascinating Rock and Found, the second time he sat at the back behind Almanzor and Found and they beat him for speed up the home straight. In his last run he sat towards the rear in what turned out to be a 2f sprint. I think he has run very well in the circumstances. And I doubt there is a Found and Almanzor to beat on Saturday.
Being beaten in a 2f sprint at Ascot with it's short home straight is no crime. After all The Tin Man was beaten the same distance in the 2f sprint at the end of the July Cup.
Something I forgot to mention is that Maverick Wave, his lead horse and twice pacemaker in the Champion Stakes, is also entered and it will be interesting to see if he is still in tomorrow. If he is, and if he runs, the Highland Reel hopes of an easy lead will disappear pretty quickly. It won't serve Ulysses all that well either. They will both have to stay the trip for sure.

Morning Uncle. I think the idea with the PoW was for Scottish to set a good pace for JH but he crawled for a mile then sprinted. The writing was on the wall from a very long way out. You may think this is a weak renewal but compared with last years, at the moment, it's a classic.
You could be right about the betting though I think if the weather stays overcast everyone will know Highland Reel's weakness and JH could easily be favourite. I will obviously protect my stake but I have had a few good bets and want to win as much as I can. These opportunities, win or lose, are few and far between.

When a horse is unable to recover the ground lost when giving a start away off a slow pace it can be excused. That's not what happened with Jack Hobbs. He was losing ground to inferior horses. Whether anyone wants to excuse the run because of other factors fair enough but to blame the pace for his tame finish is illogical in this instance. There has also been a misrepresentation of what Highland Reel achieved in the Coronation Cup. The suggestion is he got an easy lead and stayed because of the false pace. It's true they didn't go overly fast early on but it certainly wasn't a crawl. The mid section of the race was very fast and the final time was fast after accounting for conditions. That final time could not have been achieved in a race run at anything less than a very good overall pace.

I see so Tasleet and The Tin Man were losing ground to inferior horses in the July Cup. They lost the same amount of ground in a 6f race as JH lost in a 10f race. And this has nothing to do with the pace and the way the race was run. Is that what you think F?

Those two sprinters both ran below form on the day and the pace was no excuse. They went out like a light. The Tin Man had already proved he can quicken off a slowish pace. It just wasn't there for him in the July Cup. Both runners have run below par in the past with no obvious excuses. It's been estimated that in most races around 50% of runners will run below their best form. So nothing out of the ordinary that those two did in their last race.

The only amateurish thing I see on here is copy and blooming paste. Do you think people don't remember what they wrote?
I would like to see some evidence to back up the statement about the mid section of the Coronation Cup being fast for the course though. I have to add the addendum that I am not a time person. I think I have made that clear. But it would be interesting to see how others form their opinions.

I suggest the reason these two ran below their form in the July Cup was extremely relevant to the way the race was run but that is just my opinion and I certainly won't hold it against them when they next run.

I am not a time person

Well if you're going to argue a point specifically concerned with the pace of a race then a statement like that doesn't really do your argument any favours.

Some sectionals for the race have already been made available.

https://www.timeform.com/horse-racing/features/sectionals/sectional-timing-debrief-investec-derby-festival-462017

I can't believe I'm having to provide a dictionary definition of argument but seems like I need to.

a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory

Yes, some English words actually have more than one meaning. Who'd have thought it. Luckily most of us have the ability to identify the appropriate meaning in a sentence

*some of us are selective

I certainly think it is a tactic he likes to employ so I suggest his connections think these tactics suit him. In his last three 12f Gr1 races he has won he made all and was allowed an uncontested lead. Saturday will be interesting and an opportunity to prove me right or wrong.

That is difficult to say. The race was a tactical mess for a lot of the runners who sat in the rear.  Then of course first three were drawn 11, 12 and 19 which seemed to be an advantage. Certainly not a race I would be prepared to trust too much. If I remember correctly Chantilly has a long downhill run in which certainly does not suit hold up horses and they finished as though the early pace was not fast and they found making up ground late on very difficult. As I said not a race I would trust too much.

In your opinion of course. I wonder how many Arc's at Chantilly either you or Timeform have details of apart from the usual nuances of such things as times.
I'll form my own opinion thank you.

I wonder how many Arc's at Chantilly either you or Timeform have details of apart from the usual nuances of such things as times

The finishing times are there for each runner. What nuances could you possibly be referring to? Do you not accept that if a runner was disadvantaged by racing from the rear then it should have been finishing relatively faster than those runners were?

Please explain how the 250/1 shot and no hoper Vedevani, the pace setter, suddenly shot 4 lengths clear in the straight and was still leading 2 furlongs out if he had set a fast pace throughout?

Erm, maybe because he set a fast pace for 10f

No it was because he saved a bit for the home straight and then kicked clear

Based on nothing but your opinion, which is based on nothing but your opinion.

So much for your ridiculous theory about him setting a fast pace

It's not a theory, the times are there, it's a fact.

And the horses at the back were unable to make up their ground because all of the other horses who had also gone steady throughout the race were quickening at the same time

Specifically which horses?

This was a 250/1 outsider with no form so had he set a fast pace A_T I suggest he wouldn't have enough in the tank to suddenly quicken 4 lengths clear turning in. Unless, of course, he had not set such a fast pace and saved a bit for the home straight.
Also all of the horses, bar none, who sat in the rear remained in the rear. Why was that? I suggest it was because they never went a fast pace at all and everything was quickening entering the home straight putting the horses at the back at a severe disadvantage. What other explanation could there be?

Good luck with that one. What about the horses at the rear?

You are copy and pasting again. Did you notice A_T didn't have to copy and paste? Did you notice no-one else on here, except you, have to copy and paste?

You are copy and pasting again. Did you notice A_T didn't have to copy and paste? Did you notice no-one else on here, except you, have to copy and paste?

I copy and paste brigust, deal with it or do one