You could be right about Minding despite her heroic win in the Epsom Oaks as I'm still not fully convinced her best trip is 12f solely because Architecture is not a filly I rate highly - certainly not Gp1; Harzand - at least good ground a must - ought to be able to 'murder' Found in the 'Arc' but the unknown is the progressive French filly whose trainer seems to be winning most Gp1 races at will ie La Cressonniere; I'm still not a fan of Postponed despite everything he's done so far.

The 'Arc' is only about 6 weeks away,...how time flies!

La Cressonniere is no Zarkava

I don't think the Arc is necessarily associated with a strong pace, just the opposite in many recent runnings.

And that was a proper way to run a pacemaker, uncle. None of this ridiculous haring off and being ignored by the pack and the stable companion held up in rear that we see too often. Sinndar's pacemaker just set a good sensible pace for him to track closely, a far better tactic in my view.

O'Brien had said before the race that USAR would come on for the run and we know that he often uses these lower Group races to get his runners ready for the races that really matter to Coolmore. However, it seems very unusual for him to step his best middle distance 3yo down from a Gp1 to a Gp3. Maybe he's done this before but I can't recall it. It seems the Derby took a lot out of USAR and there's no guarantee he will recapture that form in the near future. As someone who backed him in the Derby and had hopes he could improve as the season progressed I now have major doubts.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt but he needs 12f and should surely go for the Prix Niel rather than the Irish Champion.

La Cressonniere runs her trial on tuesday, only 365 left at 14/1

only 2 bookmakers betting a 1/4 odds the place i see in a race where normally its a maximum field, deplorable stuff

As expected La Cressonneire won as she liked after quickening away from her pursuers at the 2f marker; I think she's force to be reckoned with in the 'Arc' if she stays 12f receiving 11lbs from Postponed and 3lbs from Harzand.

https://youtu.be/4n04XA1kIRI?t=582

nice performance by the winner, she shows plenty of speed and today was a typical french race... she at least showed her well being and the first 2 pulled clear...this should put her spot on for the big race, much to ponder with her

8/1 still a very fair price imo, filly has been underrated all along, and unlike Avenir Certain, she has a good chance of staying on breeding.

The race does not look deep this year, a Gold Cup horse 5th in the betting tells you that, so she doesnt have much to beat. Unless the trials throw something up she will be close to fav in the French betting, and probably about 6/1 here.

There will be no Vermeille for La Cressonniere but head straight to the 'Arc', according to connections; she'll be a major player, and her win in the Prix de Diane on dead ground gives me hope she'll stay the trip too.

Perhaps she might be easy to train and get ready. Might not want to test her stamina close to the arc. Probably not ideal, but hey ho.

a-t if you thought you owned a top class filly but had stamina reservations and the arc was your sole goal you wouldnt run either . if she doesnt stay in the arc shes fresher .maybe shes the new banks hill!  fillies and mares turf on a tight track

I never put much emphasis on the draw in the Arc, but this year it really shouldnt matter at all, they go middle from the 1m4 start at Chantilly for nearly 2f on to the more familiar part of the course we see in the French Oaks/Derby, so plenty of time to be where you want to be before position matters.

One could do worse than a token bet on Order Of St George who is running in the Irish Leger on 11th Sept - he is a stonking 20/1 here, a lot more just last week.

There are a few intriguing questions to be addressed this year, not least how will AOB shuffle his pack? Next to the English and Irish derbies, there is no more important race for Coolmore to target than the Arc, and as yet it is not clear how their team will pan out.

The money in the BF A/P market is pathetic  with just a few quid here and there, so for me a better guide at present is the BM market prices.

MINDING  is shortest in (best priced 8/1) and has the potential to win the Arc but the doubt here is whether there is a colt that could do it as that would be much better business by a factor of N.

FOUND looks an alternative (BP 16/1) and perhaps a more likely possibility this year. She looks up to a place but is exposed and may not be the most likely Coolmore winner but a place would do them nicely.

ORDER OF ST GEORGE (BP 16/1 with WH but 14/1 best elsewhere) looks an intriguing possibility. He may be Coolmore's best chance with a colt this year. He has stamina in abundance and a turn of foot which given soft ground, as Madhu suggests, would give him a major chance. The Irish St Leger would be a reasonable prep race as nothing entered will give him a hard race and the interval between races is just right. The MC is an obvious alternative but a run in the Arc would preclude that given quarantine requirements.

SEVENTH HEAVEN (BP 16/1) is only quoted by 4 main BM's but she is a serious prospect as she is thriving at present and providing she gets fast ground could improve enough to go close. But, another filly/mare running would just add to Coolmore's predicament of an embarassment of riches in their female options.

HIGHLAND REEL (BP 20/1 but generally shorter) has the form to win an average Arc and to my mind this years renewal looks just that (POSTPONED notwithstanding) . He could turn up being a great traveller.

IDAHO (20/1 generally) could easily take in the St Leger (for which he is a short fav) as its been done a few times before. Another colt which brings their colt team to 3.

US ARMY RANGER (BP 25/1) must be something of a disappointment to AOP & Coolmore. 12f and soft ground would be his ideal conditions and he could still prove to be as good as they think he is and could show the necessary improvement to win an average Arc. Not one to be ruled out just yet.

BALLYDOYLE (50/1) COOLMORE (50/1) DEAUVILLE (50/1) are all still quoted but it is hard to see any of these running let alone winning.

The chosen runners from Coolmore will seriously shake up the market all by themselves without taking any other variables into account so I see this years market as one to be very cautious about.

What yet hasn't been factored in to the debate is the change of venue from Longchamp to Chantilly. Although a RH course like Longchamp, Chantilly is flatter and doesn't rise as does Longchamp, but does seem on the turn for quite a way. I think that the draw may well be more significant even than at Longchamp. especially if there is a large field (20+) as there might be with no outstanding horse likely to frighten off runners.We don't have much in the way of stats for 12f at Chantilly and the ground there at that time of the year is also a bit less known.

Taken altogether, the race has an open feel to it, more so than the betting implies.

they will only run Minding or Found if they think none of their colts is a possible winner - for one of their colts to come second to a stablemate filly would be too much to bear!

Order Of St George- Idaho

The weight Order Of St George is given in the Melbourne Cup will surely dictate whether he becomes a possible runner in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe. Lloyd Williams, the majority shareholder of Order Of St George and four-time Melbourne Cup winner, stated after the Gold Cup that if receives 57kg or more the exercise of taking in the 17,000km trip would be a waste of time and money as horses carrying that weight rarely win the Melbourne Cup. Whether that was a ploy to get a reasonable weight is unknown.

In the media today Racing Victoria general manager Greg Carpenter concerning Order Of St George, and 2014 Melbourne Cup hero Protectionist, is quoted stating  "The topweight has to have at least 58kg. Without giving too much away those two horses are going to be up near the head of the weights." Therefore, we will not know until 2 days after the Irish St Leger is run and the release of Cup weights on September 15 whether Order Of St George comes into the Arc equation. Respectfully for that reason, the notion that Order Of St George is a near certainty to run if the ground is soft is a fallacy.

To be honest, if Idaho were to win (or run well) the St Leger and then run in the Arc 22 days later, given a better draw than Kingston Hill (20 of 20) he would be a serious player. Since Sandown let the cat out of the bag about his potential I nabbed some more of the 100+ about him for a punt to have alongside my shining Knight.