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King George IV & Queen Anne Stakes 26th July
King George IV & Queen Anne Stakes 26th July
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Replies: 661
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but still interested for a print of those weights
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I won't forget but it may take some time. Having a new house built at the moment so everything is put away. I'm planning a room specifically for what I have. I won't forget when I put my hands on it MJ.
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Figgis you would have an argument with your toes in a room on your own if you could.
I already posted why TL ran so poor. Go back and read it. Jim Bolger his trainer has stated in interviews the horse is better on GFm going. His two wins as an older horse are on GFm. |
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Roger, regarding arguing, all my points to you have been in direct reply to your posts questioning what I've said about race times, standard times, etc. If you're happy with Bolger's explanation and the clerk's description as reasons why your bet lost then I don't see the problem.
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So you are saying, the clerk is wrong, there was no good to soft places on the round course.
Jim Bolger is wrong, TL is equally effective on Good to Soft. |
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Clerks are often wrong, in fact they're notorious for giving wrong descriptions out. As for this particular clerk, how in the world was the ground described as good for the opening day of the Royal meeting? Even after all the evidence on day 1 he still refused to call it good to firm until after the first race on day 2. Whether there were any good to soft places on the round course, probably there were, but they weren't enough to impact greatly on the time of the race, it wasn't a good to soft time, so there can't have been that many soft places. We're not talking about a horse running a few pounds below it's best, we're talking about a horse that was absolutely knackered.
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fair enough. I agree the ground was gfm on day 1.
and Jim Bolger? |
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Jim Bolger probably making an excuse for the new owners, Godolphin.
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on the straight course.
good on round. |
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Roger, I was a fan of the horse last year and I wouldn't say his performance on rain softened good ground against The Fugue was any worse than his other efforts, I don't know how it was officially rated but I'd say it was as good as his best. To me Bolger seems quite tough on his horses early on and I don't think it helps them as older horses. The ground was slower on the round course yesterday but he was given a patient ride, I didn't see him struggling or looking uncomfortable at that stage, he didn't appear to have taken much out of himself but on turning into the straight on the firmer ground he had to be hard ridden just to pass his pacemaker, who was dropping like a stone. I'm not saying I know the answer but for me I just don't think TL was on form yesterday whatever the ground, neither was Magician.
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This seems a rather futile argument - whatever the going Trading Leather and Magician were never going to trouble the judge
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he only got a SF of 111 from me for that Champion Stakes.
122 for 2nd to DEc of War, nd 117 for 2nd to Mukhadram they are Raceform numbers. All his big numbers are on GFm. |
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This seems a rather futile argument - whatever the going Trading Leather and Magician were never going to trouble the judge
Surely analysing form goes further than what makes the winning print? |
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Also Magician was a fairly short price in the place market, TL was backed into 8/1 in the win market so I assume he was too, not many people were confident on here that they wouldn't make the frame.
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maybe but these two are well below the class necessary to be a factor in a race like yesterdays and well beaten horses are well beaten horses - the distances involved become rather academic as we don't know how much they've eased up. incidentally if TL can't handle ground like yesterday they might as well give up with it.
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Just watched a re-run of the race on RUK. TL & Magician were being pushed and kicked way before the 2f pole. Seriously Brig, what a load of nonsense. ''Handy''
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My view differs from most. I thought the race fell apart perfectly for Taghrooda, due Ryan Moore doing too much too soon. He was hellbent on trying to keep within 4l of the tear away pacesetter. Admittedly the softer ground pre home straight didn't help, but, after his initial kick to take the lead, Taghrooda was perfectly placed to swoop and go past A tiring Telescope. On the plus side, it was a very good effort to give 15lbs on ground softer than ideal. He is no forlorn hope in the Arc given fast conditions. 25/1 ew already taken.
Taghrooda is arguably the best middle distance horse in Britain. But, the Arc is a worry. Impressive in the Pretty Polly and the Oaks,IMO, due to the long finishing straight allowing her time to find her balance and stride. At Ascot, it took her 1.5 furlongs to make up 2/3 lengths on Telescope. Longchamp has a relatively short run in and a false finishing straight which will not suit her running style. Mukhadaram yet again failed at Ascot, though not disgraced. Once again showing that he is a grinder and not a finisher. York in 3 weeks will suit him better, but will this race have left his mark on him? Trading Leather is possibly on a downward curve, didn't have his going and looks a better prospect over 10f. Magician was another who didn't have his ground. Another who yet again failed at Ascot. 10f , left handed and fast ground are ideal. ( why no international entry? ) but, when o Brien goes into a group 1 race mob handed, it's a case of throwing arrers hoping 1 will hit the bull. When he sends 1 horse or 1 and a pacemaker, then he is expecting a big run, so this run can be put down as disappointing. Eagle Top ran a fair race, but doesn't look group 1 class, whilst Romsdal will be better suited to the rose of Lancaster over 10f at Haydock. |
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From what I read 2day in the RP, Telescope is being aimed at the BC Turf.
Cant have your take on the race "fell apart" thing about Taghrooda`s KG win, she is just to gd for them & is a high class filly. As for the going, on times it was no slower than gd, poss a bit loose on top, thanks to over watering  , maybe that's why 1or2 ran below their best, among other reasons.All in all, even if all the runners had run to their best form, we would still have the same winner & runner-up imo. |
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Sin I'm not going through it again. If I remember correctly as they turned in the pace started to quicken and they all started going for it with the exception of the winner. Two out all of the runners were within shouting distance. Mukhadram and Telescope were a couple in front of the rest who you could throw a blanket over. Three quicken away and left Magician, Trading Leather and Romsdal for dead. These three continued to lose ground at a rate of knots as the line approached. You could call it nonsense if you want that is your right. Or wrong as the case may be.
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I'd be very surprised if the ground at Longchamp turns out quicker than what Telescope had at the weekend. It might be good, but its rarely quicker than that. I don't see the ground as an issue for anything in the race on Saturday tbh.
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Brig, you are factually incorrect. Nowt to do with my opinion. It's what actually happened.
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https://www.timeform.com/Racing/Articles/Ratings_Update_A_Queen_crowned_in_the_King_George
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I thought that the final margin of victory confirmed that Taghrooda is exceptional, at least at the weight for age scale in July. Time will tell how well she will progress as the scale comes down but as she is not likely to race at 4yo, she will always get a lot of weight from 4yo colts.
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The only possible change in result from Ascot in my (biassed) opinion is that given a different ride, Eagle Top could have finished second. I still don't think he would beat Tag though. With a more forward ride and more experience he could still be a Group 1 winner.
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Eagle tops run in the KG was solid enough for a lightly raced colt.
Looks a real stayer to me & would take all the beating in the Leger if going down that route, but from what I have read in the press he is not going down that route? We shall see. |
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I did say that I thought it was very likely Taghrooda had a hard race in the KG and I believe that was the reason for her defeat today, not that I backed Tapestry unfortunately.
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runs of Telescope and Mukhadram did suggest king george form not all that
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Yes it looked like Taghrooda tired and Tapestry worried her out of the race. I might have overrated her after the KG - Mukhadram and Telescope hardly advertised the form yesterday. Still an almost unexolicable result - Tapestry has done nothing before and will maybe do nothing again - just hit a sweet spot today.
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agree figgis race certainly left its mark as you eluded on one thread tbf
i would argue they did pull clear today though and they have always thought the winner to be very good but you would still of expected her to have won...will be interesting if they took the winner to the filly and mare turf later in the season, she is certainly going the right way i wonder if they can get taghrooda back for the arc now fresh or whether her season is coming to an end...we will see |
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Also think the horse hit the front much too early - must have been 4f out.
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sounds stupid given she was 1/5 but she did n't do a lot wrong - looked to be going better than Tapestry when she took it up and was probably in front long enough - although Moore was correct in stating that Tag had ample time to fight back (she did try!)
would n't put me off her in the Arc but would want to see oppo and draw before thinking about a bet... |
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Mukhadram was obviously below his best yesterday. It's easy to say the KG form wasn't great in hindsight but she beat Telescope by 3 lengths, Australia only extended that margin by just over a length yesterday while being harder ridden and people seemed to be enthusiastic about that performance. In any case I don't think many would've backed Tapestry to do what Taghrooda did in the KG.
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I backed Tapestry without Tahgrooda who could have done with more pace in the race , it would have taken real nerve for Hanigan to get her up there earlier in the race but it may have paid off , she was beaten in a two Horse sprint to the
line , sad for horse and jockey . |
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be interesting to see where they go with Tapestry...
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full sister to John F Kennedy
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To my eyes it looked more of a case of Taghrooda running very tired late on rather than the winner doing anything special.
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hit the front too soon and idled
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I think the ground and track just suited the 'quicker' winner better. York is like that and Taghrooda beat the rest a long way so if she had done that without the winner everyone would have been happy. The winner was favourite for the 1000 Gns so is quick.
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She ran a bit flat but her Oaks and KG wins were hardly outstanding bits of for, and Tapestry may just be the better filly now she has come to hand.
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To back up my view that it was more of a case of Taghrooda running below form at York rather than Tapestry doing anything special I'm laying Tapestry in the Matron today, not that she can't win but there are a few here that can get the better of her on a going day and she's too short in my opinion.
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