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King George IV & Queen Anne Stakes 26th July
King George IV & Queen Anne Stakes 26th July
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Replies: 661
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Why the fuss about Trading Leather one of the worst Irish Derby winners in years and only ever going to be a factor in very weak G1 races.
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because he ran so poor.
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Latter day horses retired early? Like
Zarkava, Intello, Or recent Derby winners like Shaamit, Benny the Dip, Oath, Sinndar, Galileo Kris Kin Motivator Authorized Sea the Stars Pour Moi Is that what you mean? |
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No, I mean inconsistency, as stated.
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Or Carnegie, Pientre Celebre, Lammtarra and Dalakhani of recent Arc winners. Is that what you mean about retiring early?
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And the earlier horses where it is glossed over were who exactly?
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Racing Post Standard 2.28.90.
You think a Gp1 is 0.77 secs faster than standard? Ground described as Good (GSft places on round course) TL wants GFm. I don't actually use RP standards myself but there will usually be some similarities between them. The time stacks up well with other Gp1 races run on good to firm or the fast side of good. Unless you're comparing with record times which is never a good idea. Ground described as Good (GSft places on round course) Since when have official descriptions been the last word? The clerk was calling the course good for the Royal meeting, I don't think many would agree with him. TL wants GFm. At worst the ground could've been no slower than good. His best run as a 2yo was winning the Autumn stakes on good to soft. He ran well to finish 2nd in the Dante on good ground and he ran a good race in 3rd behind The Fugue in last year's Irish Champion Stakes. on good ground after a recent downpour. I can't accept he would get thrashed 11 lengths just because there was no firm in the ground. |
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Unless he didn't stay of course and emptied.
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And the earlier horses where it is glossed over were who exactly?
Erm, Dancing Brave?  |
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Unless he didn't stay of course and emptied.
And struggled to pass his trailblazing pacemaker before stamina even became an issue. |
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Goodness. Brig not only forgets what he writes but doesn't actually understand it either.
Unreal. |
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When you consider it was the Leitir Mors first run over further than a mile PLUS he has been rated 117 compared to Trading Leathers 119 it may not have been such a surprise it took him a while to get by.
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Trading Leather was 2nd last year behind Novelist when the course record was broken. He stays 12f.
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Your mate Dancing Brave eh? I've never criticised Dancing Brave's owners for retiring him early. What are you on about?
Sin do you understand the concept that all horses stay 12f? |
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Brig, do you think your opinion is always correct even in the face of evidence?
One thing I know for sure is that I understand far more than yourself. |
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And do you understand what quick times, mean? e.g last years King George.
Honestly! |
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When you consider it was the Leitir Mors first run over further than a mile PLUS he has been rated 117 compared to Trading Leathers 119 it may not have been such a surprise it took him a while to get by.
That would be a plausible explanation if LM had been given an easy time in front off a slow pace, a tenuous one if he'd been ridden optimally in a truly run race, but in yesterday's circumstances? Not for me. |
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the distances behind once you go past the first 3 should not be taken too literally the jockeys will have given up by then even if they would never admit it
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Your mate Dancing Brave eh? I've never criticised Dancing Brave's owners for retiring him early. What are you on about?
Is this a serious post? |
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Yes it is a serious post? You obviously have all of my posts since I joined in 2001 so it would be interesting to read what I wrote. Feel free to show me what you mean.
It may not be the right answer but Leitir Mor was leading approaching the furlong marker in Toronado's Sussex Stakes and was nutted by Gordon Lord Byron over a mile at Leopardstown and that's a stiff track. So having an easy time on his own may have helped him get that bit further before he capitulated. |
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Inconsistency ffs!
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having an easy time on his own may have helped him
You honestly saw yesterday's race as him having an easy time in front? |
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Do you understand what fast times mean in the context of a race Brig?
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Well nothing took him on so considering he's used to running against sprinters and milers I'm sure he felt things were a bit easier. Mukhadram made particular point of not getting into a duel and pounced when he could. I don't think it took Trading Leather any time at all getting past him. Nothing in that.
No I don't understand what fast times mean Sin. Enlighten me. |
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Ground the biggest factor to fast times(goes without saying),pacemakers do also effect clean run races,but I remember coe and ovett at their prime,and class usually came through but not always(pace duel),coe was the best,injured young,made a terrific comeback,but never quite as good as before injury.
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Leitir Mors worth another visit overv 10f in a weaker event,they may have found a trip
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times are only a reasonably useful guide in Uk racing it's not like in the US - over here the stall and rails are moved about randomly and distances only approximate.
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and the Trainers give off the cuff orders too jockeys who make up their own orders at times(drinks all around)!
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Think Steve Ovett preferred it good to soft.
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Old man kept his form very well,never likely to see their likes again to soon.(great time for uk athletics)
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Watch it MJ, those rose tinted specs. You will be saying Ali was great next.
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 ,before we retire to real life,one question brigust,did the major weigh his horses? I have an interest in the natural weight of race horses but no information,is that information important? |
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No I won't, Brig. If you don't understand them now or can at least see what they indicate after 40 odd years of following the sport then judging by your previous on here you sure as well won't starting listening or learning now. If anything, it confirms what I said last October on the Farhh discussion, and that was your opinion cannot be taken seriously. Massive gap in your knowledge when assessing races and horses. One eyed, in fact. There are many parts to a puzzle! Anyway, laters.
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Yes he did MJ. I'm not sure when he had the scales installed but I have BG's weights somewhere. I think a horses weight is more important than sectionals but that's me I suppose. Stupid.
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Brigust absolutely brilliant,if you got the weight could you post them up,a real piece of history and possible missing piece for historians in the future assessing one of if not the best racehorse of all time,if by any chance you have his weights before a certain race date etc even better
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Sky Lantern apparently lost 20 kilos in weight between her Royal Ascot run and Falmouth run this season.
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I will look them out MJ. I have loads of stuff put away from when we moved here so it may take some time. When I go through it I will message you.
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Thank you brigust, I think maybe one day they belong in a horse racing museum,our ignorance. at their importance. goes without saying, but. one day I hope they gain more significance, maybe one day Frankel weights will be known?, but the Brigadier will do for me! Great stuff! B-)
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Everything I have should be in a museum. Race cloths, bridle, 3 sets of shoes, hair, teeth, presentations, signed racecards, signed photos, porcelain sculptures, films, newspapers you name it. I must get it all out sometime. I've even got Sea Bird 11's Arc racecard in a box among many others.
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I am tempted to ask for objects
 ,but I feel one of the race courses or museums would be most interested,in the public domain,a better place than with some mug from Wolverhampton |