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These 661 comments are related to the topic:
King George IV & Queen Anne Stakes 26th July
King George IV & Queen Anne Stakes 26th July
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Replies: 661
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Mac, what about the time?
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But very disappointing he could not see off a pacy sort in Mukhadram by a bigger margin,after all Mukhadram who was probably inconvenienced by the pace maker,and the opposite true of Telescope and others?(speculation this)
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We are all ageing MJ
 CDA won two of his G1's at 8, 4 years older than Tele! Get my point mate? Still in his prime! |
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To show how ridiculous the Gr1 situation is the mares that will run in the new mares Gr1 at Cheltenham festival are likely to be rated lower than the horses Fergus Wilson ran in the Gold Cup and got slaughtered for because they were so bad. And the runners in this new Gr1 race are likely also be so lowly rated they wouldn't even get into the handicap for the Grand National. Yet the winner will be a Gr1 winner. Mad.
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Do Highclere not have syndicates that sell at the end of the season? Will Telescope be sold as a stallion? Or will he stay in training considering his ground and pace requirements?
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Sint , times are not only a function of optimum ground conditions they are also a function of sustained effort , the Jockeys were under the impression that the ground was good , in the literal sense of that word and rode accordingly, this found out those Horses who only get twelve furlongs on quick ground imo.
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appologies Figg*
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That's a good spot Mac about the hcap. I was doubting AOB because the course walked OK and was drying out albeit slowly. I was of a mind to think it was just stamina but point taken about the ground.
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I think the ground could be described as good myself.
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If the argument was to cut the fixture list back completely, therefore involving less Group races, it would be fair enough. However the argument is always the same one of cutting back on the top races, leaving the sport even more bottom heavy with dross. Ridiculous.
The argument on here revolves around the age old situation of egotistical people of some generations always wanting to believe the athletes from their era were the best. We could go back to the 1770s and look at Eclipse. Now there was a real racehorse some would say. If some old timers could've been transported 200 years forward I'm sure they'd have dismissed the 1970s stars as pale imitations of a racehorse. There were none of these 12f races for Eclipse, would've seemed like a sprint. No luxury of being transported to the races in a van, he walked there. No 30 days recovery between races for him, try winning 2 big races in 2 days. He was so good the opposition often didn't bother to turn up, blah, blah. |
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Harbinger won his race in 2m 26.78s(rp time) yesterdays race won in 2m 28.13s(rp time) a difference of 1.35/12 = 0.1125 per furlong hardly soft ground.
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You have a problem Figgis that's why you keep bringing up the past on every thread. You need counselling mate.
Why not see how many threads you can go on without referring to past horses? That'll be a test for you. Do you understand the concept that other people may have a different opinion to you? Is that beyond your wit? |
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It is the firm side of good by now MJ
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figgis I take your point but do not agree, there is just too much racing bottom and top,the universe may expand but this planet cannot afford it.
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my maths wrong anyway Mac
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But if we had all known it was ( how shall we say ) on the slow side of good right up to the race , we could have all got on Heavy metal
going for a swim ! |
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You have a problem Figgis
Yes, some Johnny Rotten lyrics spring to mind. that's why you keep bringing up the past on every thread Wrong, I bring it up to balance your continual criticisms of races and racehorses today not being what they were. |
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Brig, every thread you have posted on you have made references to horses of the past. Even on this thread you started banging on about Dahlia.
And you immediate posts after the race yesterday were to say it was not a great race. Proving Figgis's point right, you think nothing stands up to horses of the past. Ego, ego, ego. |
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Mac,lets not talk Heavy Metal have lost a packet on the horse before the comeback hoping for the comeback(gave in before)
 The MJ magic! |
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figgis I take your point but do not agree, there is just too much racing bottom and top,the universe may expand but this planet cannot afford it.
MJ, I totally agree, but that is never the point that gets brought up. |
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And to answer your question about cutting races I don't agree with that either. You cannot go backwards. I think they should have the same number of Group 1's but divide them into something like Premiership Group 1's and Championship Group 1's.
I'm not going to get into your usual bitchy attitude Figgis. Keep arguing with yourself. I've had to deal with this on every thread you go one and it usually ends up with Dancing Brave so forgive me if I swerve your normal tantrum. |
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Hang on sintonian and figgis,some of us enjoy the history lessons and the knowledge of someone who worked amongst horses most of his working life!(and much to learn)
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This forum a much better place for the likes of brigust!
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The German race off in 10 minutes,we can see how far Noble Mission beats the lion(or not).
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I've had to deal with this on every thread you go one and it usually ends up with Dancing Brave so forgive me if I swerve your normal tantrum
As I said before, on last year's Arc thread you looked and found reasons to pull down every highly regarded horse since him so he is the most recently available reference point |
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I think they should have the same number of Group 1's but divide them into something like Premiership Group 1's and Championship Group 1's.
Why do you need to have them labelled as such? I think everyone's aware an average Prix Jean Prat isn't as good as winning an average Eclipse. |
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For exactly the same reason you said about winning 3 Group 1's about half an hour ago. And I didn't bring down every highly regarded horse since your friend Dancing Brave it is something Timeform has done not me. Take it up with them. One of my favourite horses is Montjeu actually so that's more complete rubbish.
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I try to treat you with courtesy and respect while at every turn you try to pull apart what I write. As I said you have a problem.
Can I say again this is a forum. It is where different issues and different points are put forward for discussion. We will all have different ideas and different views. Different opinions and different fancies. That is what makes the world go around. Showing some common decency and common courtesy should not be beyond the wit of a group of adult human beings. |
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I bet you cannot even remember what you type on here Brigust. Telling outright porkies now.
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Pedro I don't rate here the equal of or higher than any of those you mentioned with Dalakhani the exception. He beat Mubtaker who Hurricane Run subsequently beat by miles.
The problem is Treve is fresh and the others we know more about. I have never been a great STS fan because his Arc wasn't great either and I'm not really sure beating Fame and Glory and Rip Van Winkle amounts to super stardom. Zarkave beat better horses, came from last to first in the Arc but then retired. Danedream won in record time in a stronger Arc than Treve's but then showed as a 4 yeat old how beneficial the 3 year old allowance can be. Hurricane Run looked spectacular at the time, like Treve, but it turned out he beat nothing in the Arc. Sakhee was exceptional in the Arc and bolted up beating a Vermielle winner but the rest weren't great. The last 3 Montjeu (my favourite), Sinndar and Pientre Celebre were simply better horses but again were 3 year olds who were either retired or failed to show their form properly at 4 years old. They all won very hot Arc's beating previous Arc winners easily. Treve never beat an Arc winner and Orfevre's 2nd in the Arc the year before must have been among the worst Arc' run with no Gr1 winners coming from the first 10 horses home. |
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brigust understand your point in regards world wide group 1's
however from the group 1's run in britain which races would you devalue?? this will help me understand your particular stance in this regard...tatersalls gold cup would go for me i say this because most of the races upgraded have been rightly so prince of wales(3 year olds used to be able to run), jubilee, king stand it is a shame the breed has been influenced by the breeders to now influence speed into the pedigree or it certainly has in recent times, thus compromising the class of the middle distance breed and now leaves us with galileo and whoever offspring he produces...this is i am afraid however coolmore are dominating the middle distance thoroughbred and it is now becoming uncompetitive class wise...just my opinion...thank god for the sea the stars and the great mare of course urban sea a great example is how the aga has run his stud in recent times when before he was producing high class middle distance horses then this year ebanoran has what i would call a mixed pedigree, a beautifully bred mother who stayed well but tried to influence her with a speed bred influence oasis dream...anyway speed is what breeders have wanted recently but it is now baring out in recent times in poor class middle distance horses...just my opinion and am no breeding expert |
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There are now too many G1s in Europe. In particular there are too many open to fillies only - the Nassau, the mile race at Deauville, the Falmouth, the Sun Chariot - these never used to be G1 and still shouldn't be the level competition is barely G2. I suppose this is all for the benefit of breeders.
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A_T, the problem with getting rid of them is we'd just end up with more fillies being retired as 3yos.
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that is true figgis^^
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That looks like very selective editing but what part of it do you disagree with? That is the point of a forum. Someone writes something and you agree or disagree. And yes Montjeu was my favourite. I won't apologise for that thanks.
See how you dug up something I don't even remember writing. You have a problem Figgis. Why not enjoy the variety that different views and different opinions brings to a debate? I agree that selection may be difficult but directing the best horses for a head to head could be the aim. The ARC is so good because it is open to 3 year and 4 year olds and upwards. Perhaps reviewing the races the top horses target would be a guide. That's why I wouldn't cut any races just upgrade a few perhaps one or maybe two over various distances. Cheltenham works because all roads lead there. Suggestions welcome. Whatever course taken should be a blueprint for the future. |
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Anyway Sea The Moon form just be verified above the norm(the lion roared) the best 3yrld in the world, I stand by it(for now anyway)
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then there's the Prix Saint-Alary - why on earth there is a 10f race in France for 3yo fillies just weeks before the Dianes is anyone's guess
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Fantastic performance from Taghrooda in yest KG victory
Granted some gd ground on Arc day, she would have a big shout. Yet another excellent Big race ride from P Hanagan . |
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Racing Post Standard 2.28.90.
You think a Gp1 is 0.77 secs faster than standard? Ground described as Good (GSft places on round course) TL wants GFm. |
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That looks like very selective editing
That was the whole post, no editing whatsoever. what part of it do you disagree with It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, it's a point of consistency, or lack of it. For example, the form of latter day horses has been questioned because they were retired as 3yos (which is a point I would agree with), however, it is completely glossed over as a non issue when concerning earlier horses. See how you dug up something I don't even remember writing It was dug up because you constantly say I keep referring to Dancing Brave, well as I only started seriously following racing in 1985 and at one time or another you've crabbed every highly rated horse I can remember apart from him there is nothing left. |