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push ... if he did have an off-day travelling over to France then it isn't hard to seeing him measuring up well in the Dewhurst through Xtension, who he beat 6 lengths in the Coventry, beaten only a neck and a nose in the Dewhurst. If he gets the trip he is going to be very difficult to beat imo. Also you have Dick Turpin beaten 4 lengths in the Dewhurst who Hannon has just said isn;t in the same class as Canford Cliffs and is likely to go European Free H'cap.
Coventry Stakes (group 2) £100000 added, 2yo only, 6f, Class 1, £56770 penalty, 13 ran Going: Good to Firm Race Report » Winning Time: 1m 13.64s Pos. Draw Dist. Horse Wt Jockey Trainer Age SP 1 9 Canford Cliffs (IRE) 9-1 R Hughes R Hannon 2 7/4 f made virtually all, led narrowly, always going well, joined halfway, soon overall leader again, quickened and clear over 1f out, ran on strongly, very easily opened 7/4 touched 15/8 £6000-£3000 (x2) £3000-£1500 £2000-£1000 (x7) £1600-£800 £1000-£500 £18750-£10000 £7500-£4000 £5625-£3000 (x2) £3750-£2000 £3000-£1600 (x2) £1875-£1000 (x2) £750-£400 £875-£500 £7000-£4000 2 11 6 Xtension (IRE) 9-1 A Kirby C G Cox 2 20/1 behind, well outpaced over 2f out, headway over 1f out, ran on strongly inside final furlong, took 2nd close home, no danger to winner opened 25/1 touched 25/1 Saturday October 17 2009 Newmarket 14:25 - Result Jumeirah Dewhurst Stakes (group 1) £300000 added, 2yo only, 7f, Class 1, £180160 penalty, 15 ran Going: Good, Good to Firm in places Race Report » Winning Time: 1m 23.49s Pos. Draw Dist. Horse Wt Jockey Trainer Age SP 1 3 Beethoven (IRE) 9-1 R L Moore A P O'Brien 2 33/1 tracked leaders, ridden and switched right over 1f out, driven, edged right and ran on to lead close home opened 33/1 touched 33/1 2 13 nk Fencing Master 9-1 C O'Donoghue A P O'Brien 2 20/1 towards rear, pushed along 4f out, ridden and headway on outer 2f out, every chance entering final furlong, ran on opened 25/1 touched 33/1 3 11 nse Xtension (IRE) 9-1 A Kirby C G Cox 2 6/1 hampered start, towards rear, ridden and headway on outer from 2f out, every chance entering final furlong, led well inside final furlong, headed and lost 2nd towards finish opened 11/2 touched 6/1 £2400-£400 4 1 nk Steinbeck (IRE) 9-1 J P Murtagh A P O'Brien 2 4/1 led, ridden over 2f out, headed and kept on inside final furlong opened 4/1 touched 5/1 £15000-£3000 Each Way £10000-£2000 Each Way £5000-£1000 Each Way £2500-£500 (x2) £1500-£300 £9000-£2000 £4500-£1000 Each Way (x2) £4500-£1000 £2250-£500 Each Way £1800-£400 £8000-£2000 Each Way 5 7 1¾ Buzzword 9-1 Ahmed Ajtebi Saeed Suroor 2 14/1 chased leaders, ridden over 2f out, every chance entering final furlong, kept on onepace opened 12/1 touched 14/1 £5000-£350 6 5 2 Dick Turpin (IRE) 9-1 R Hughes R Hannon 2 8/1 chased leaders, switched right and effort over 1f out, kept on same pace opened 10/1 touched 10/1 £5000-£550 Each Way |
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Good stuff James , you seem to have an outstanding ability to spot the fillies with Classic potential. G.Wragg was the man for big priced fillies, especially in the Cornation Stakes ( Royal Ascot ).
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Kirk, we have seen horses win like Canford Cliffs did at RA before , only not to train on. As for DT not being in the same league, i did see an interview with Hughs and he said DT was not far behind CC.
CC is not in my Guineas portfolio yet, but good luck to you with your selections, i am just not convinced CC will stay. Still the horse should be a big fave for mine as he was the last leg in a 5 timer accumulator i had at RA. |
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The Coventry seems to be race you don't want to win if you want to be a good 3 or 4 year old. An average they win 1 more race in their careers.
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Last two winners have been Henrythenavigator and Art Con
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Can see what you are saying though Charlton though, The 2000 does look wide open though
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Yeah Zil the last two are the anomolies though. He could be good a Gr1 winner at 3 or 4 but history shows the fast ones are Ascot are actually quite moderate.
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Its funny how things go in cycles though. For years, running in the 2000 seemed to be the kiss of death for the Derby- then we suddenly got Sir Percy, New Approach and Sea The Stars in four years
It will be interesting to see how CC settles behind horses though |
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Indeed it will. All this jumping is boring me.
:) |
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push .. dont know how old that was but this is very recent ..
Richard Hannon will give Canford Cliffs a 2000 Guineas prep run in the Greenham Stakes. The Marlborough trainer confirmed that last year's runaway Coventry Stakes winner will have his first start of the season over seven furlongs at Newbury on April 17. Canford Cliffs was ante-post favourite for the stanjames.com-sponsored mile Classic until having his colours lowered on his third and final start of the season in the Group One Prix Morny at Deauville in August. He is now a 10-1 chance for the Guineas with Sky Bet, but Hannon says the Tagula colt has thrived over the winter. Speaking from Barbados where he is on holiday, Hannon said: "Canford Cliffs looks a picture. He's done really well over the winter and I couldn't be more pleased with him. "He will run in one of the trials, probably the Greenham. I want to start him off over seven furlongs rather than a mile and that looks his race. "He's a good horse - make no mistake. And if all goes well he'll run in the Guineas after that." Hannon, whose 181 winners last season earned more than £2.75million, thinks Dick Turpin, who won the Group Two Richmond Stakes last summer before signing off the season with a disappointing sixth place in the Dewhurst Stakes at Newmarket, could return there for his seasonal reappearance. He said: "I can't put him in the same league as Canford Cliffs, but he's a very nice horse and once he fills his frame he'll be even better. "He looks stronger and he's thrived over the winter. We will look at something like the European Free Handicap (at Newmarket on April 14) for him to start off with and we hope he'll make up into a Classic colt, too." |
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push - not convinced CC will stay. Still the horse should be a big fave for mine as he was the last leg in a 5 timer accumulator i had at RA......
that takes some doing. The Coventry was the 4th race on the first day of the meet :^0 |
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thats a cracker!
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all 5 runners wont have been at RA
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Push - yes I was at Newmarket for champions day - In the paddock I thought Steinbeck was head and shoulders above that field as a specimen. He was in need of the run but it was his stature and pressence I really liked. The Ballydoyle horses are generally well mannered and he was no exception. It is not often you can really say one stands out in the paddock in a group 1 but he really did. I am not an expert but I would say his conformation is pretty solid; he walked very well and his action was very smooth (far better than his first run when I thought he was scratchy). Yes there has to be a risk he won't show but if he does I can't see any of the Dewhurst field finishing in front of him. Even being in need of the run he would have still won that race if he had not come up the stands rail - it was areal disadvantage that day - at least 2-3 lengths over 7 furlongs in my opinion. Thanks for the responses on the guineas winners campaigned over at mile at 2 question.
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Thanks Lobster Luck.
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NO NO NO. with SNA (the favourite) already in the race. Why would Aiden risk Steinbeck. He will surely run in the Irish Guineas. And leave the English version to SNA.
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Tirol1982,You are most likly spot on I could see Steinbeck going for the Irish 2000,and saying that he will need as fast pace thats where I can see Aidan running Air Cheif Marshal as his pace maker.If SNA wins the GNS then I can see the TC on the cards.
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If Steinbeck is ready he will be at Newmarket, it is not often O Briens miss the 2000G, MCMan ran in last years race even if only as a prep for the Irish version. But time will tell.
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Kirk, When Hannon says CC is in a different league to Dick Turpin, a literal reading of the form guide using Rakaan ( if he is a reliable yardstick ? ) suggests not.
CC beat Rakaan FTO by 7 lengths, then beat him by 6.75 lengths at RAscot, both races over 6f. Dick Turpin beat Rakaan by 6.5 lengths at Goodwood over 6f . So if we can use Rakaan as a reliable yardstick they are not that far apart. Having taken a closer look at CC he has a chance of staying 1 mile, he is already the highest rated offspring by his sire over 6f can he do it over 1 mile ? |
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Dick Turpin's a good horse but doesn't stay, if Hannon realises that he will have a big season. CC probably has more chance of staying.
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Not suggesting you back Dick Turpin Ben.
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Be interesting to see, push. Prettyt sure he is right re CC being in a different league to DT perhaps Xtension is a good yardstick as mentioned above. It is more likely to be the case than a form line that brings them together imo. If he can get the 7f going well at the close it will be a really exciting race to look forward to then.
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I am looking forward to it already Kirk. Just hope me old mate Steinbeck makes it to the race , for a bit more interest.
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Steinbeck looks really classy also ... he will surely come on tons out of the Dewhurst, only his second run and after only 6 weeks back in training, and a winter to develop on that without being given a hard time. He should be fresh as a daisy and if Canford Cliffs doesnt stay will be picking it up.
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Good to read Lobster Lucks observation of Steinbeck in the paddock before the Dewhurst. Looks like he should make good progress from 2-3 years.
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I know push, was just making an observation.
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Will Canford Cliffs stay a mile?
One of the main reasons I didn't back Canford Cliffs for the Guineas after last year's Coventry is his breeding. His sire Tagula was a top class juvenile, showing plenty of speed in his three wins (all over 6f, including the Group 1 Prix Morny). He was a very smart performer at up to 7f at three but failed in his two attempts at a mile: in the French Guineas he led briefly inside the final furlong before being swallowed up by Ashkalani and Spinning World, while in the Irish Guineas (run on yielding ground) he weakened approaching the final furlong and finished 5th to Spinning World. His three subsequent career starts were all over 7f (winning a Group 3 over that trip at Goodwood). As a sire, Tagula has a proven but unexceptional track record of producing mainly sprinters and 7f horses (like himself). Up to last June he had produced 20 horses that had either won or been placed at Listed, Group 3 or Group 2 level. Of these 20, four did manage to win over 8-9f: Atlantis Prince, Bakewell Tart, Pure Poetry (last year's Easter Stakes winner) and Pentecost. But the other 16 won only at trips shorter than a mile: they include the sprinters Tax Free, King Orchisios, Red Millennium, Beaver Patrol, Dragon Flyer, Raggle Taggle, Tagula Sunrise, Bond Becks, Partytime, Sunderland Echo, Tilak and Triple Play. Among Tagula's offspring, milers are the exception, sprinters and 7f horses are the rule. Canford Cliffs' dam Mrs Marsh is an unraced half-sister to Baltic Dip (who, although by Derby winner Benny The Dip, was a 6f winner and seemed not to stay 7f+ when tried at longer trips), Pina Colada (a 5f winner by Sabrehill, who later raced over longer trips in the US), Trois (a multiple 9f winner on the all-weather) and Triple Sharp (a 10f winner on the flat and winning hurdler). Mrs Marsh's dam Drei (by Lyphard out of Triple Tipple) was a once-raced maiden (finishing 4th in a mile maiden at Yarmouth, where she made no progress in the last 2f). I think it's fair to say that the dam's side of CC's pedigree is 'mixed', to say the least: it throws up a mixture of sprint winners and 9-10f horses. CC's half-brother Zeeran (by Barathea) was such a modest performer that it's anybody's guess what his 'trip' may have been, but there was nothing in his seven racecourse appearances to suggest that he would have stayed a mile. Canford Cliffs shapes like a typical son of Tagula - he has shown loads of speed as a juvenile, may well get 7f, but is highly unlikely (in my opinion) to last a mile in Group 1 company, despite the connections' protestations to the contrary. |
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I saw Tagula at Newmarket in the Dewhurst where he probably failed to stay the fast run 7f ( set by the pacemaker for Alhaarth ). So was quite surprised he ran so well over 1 mile in the French Guineas, ( easy 1 mile ).
Tagula got an Official Rating of 117 as a 2yo , CC got an OR of 118, CC looks to be a stronger specimen than his sire, given normal progression from 2-3 years he should give his backers a good run for their money in the 2000 Guineas. |
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I agree that Tagula appeared not to stay 7f in the Dewhurst, though he did get the trip well at three. I think his son Canford Cliffs will give his backers a good run for their money over the first 7f of the Guineas, but I expect him to fade in the final furlong. If he wins the Greenham decisively (as seems highly likely) he will go off at shortish odds for the Guineas, which would make him a great LAY in my book.
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I agree with your view there James.
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Outstanding work again James :)
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Steinbeck cut from 10-1 to 9-1 for the 2000G with PPower today. But what do they know ?
Here is a quote from the 20th March 2009 by Claude Duval " Rip Van Winkle is set to miss the 2000 Guineas his price has drifted from 6-1 to 10-1, Mastercraftsman has been all the rage backed from 10-1 into 6-1 ". And PPower have removed RVW from the betting. My Ballydoyle source insists RVW is not injured but is still growing and has been slow to come to hand. Rip still beat MCM come Guineas day. |
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Push, you can read that one of two ways, either
The money coming for MasterCMan and the presence or absence of another Ballydoyle hope in the betting does not signifiy the individuals abilities come GNS day. Wherefore SNA could still be the best of the Ballydoyle bridgade despite money today for Steinbeck. OR Niggily fragile horses like Rip Van and Steinbeck are risky bets due to uncertainty over their participation and the posssible detriment to their chances having an interrupted prep. |
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The point is , can you believe so called inside information, and / or false betting patterns ? I see Seta has been cut for the 1000G today by some firms, every year we get these Market Movers which more often than not disappoint.
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..and Canford Cliffs also 9s from 10s
push 02 Feb 18:47 Steinbeck cut from 10-1 to 9-1 for the 2000G with PPower today. But what do they know ? |
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.. and they've pushed Elusive Pimpernel out from 14s to 16s.
In fact the 3 on this thread I fancy / dont fancy have gone in the right direction coincidentally. Suppose they know who their knowledgable customers are ;) ha ha |
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Well done Kirk :)
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Gonna start charging for this mate .. lol
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Kirk, you've said a couple of times on here that you've backed St Nicholas Abbey but have you, really? Aren't you just saying it so you don't end up with egg on your face if SNA wins the Guineas? You're desperate for him to be beaten or, better still, not turn up at Newmarket. You'd be more sanguine if you'd really got money on him.
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Oh dear. Mathematically inept is my guess. :)
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