|
By:
competition for "free" money frequently sees them jumping the gun
Any slow pic player just pick up a few quid there on Gilsland? 4-15-4 in one seccond. Sometimes these guys are just giving you money. |
|
By:
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
|
|
By:
Artie, surely losing too quickly is what gets rid of customers. You dont hear of other betting companies needing a premium charge to pay to attract new customers. They can hang onto customers without it
lol - you actually believe the line about needing it to attract new customers ... I think you'll find their profits have been going up very nicely without any need to attarct new customers....they are also the only betting company in a unique position that allows them to do such a thing as well. |
|
By:
The Betfairy 20 Nov 12:06 artie, if some customers are eaning £100Ks per year from in-running horse racing purely because ofthe advantage of faster pictures, surely Betfiar has a moral, and certainly a commercial, responsibility to prevent it? Does it not show that the system is flawed? The Betfairy 20 Nov 12:07 (surely it cannot be good for business) this is everything summed up in two statements...... I KNOW |
|
By:
its fair as long as betfair tell customers about picture delay times espically customers who loose reguarly on this type of bet - but as in ,its in the small print ,this must be guilt free if reguarly taking bets of same of same customer
|
|
By:
but the only big advantage would be to be on course no?
So if people are willing to spend their afternoons at the racetrack let them do it and its not that big of an advantage anyway as many people are doing it. ( i am not from the uk btw and not visiting racetracks) |
|
By:
remember
I asked the GC to make it a liciencing obligation that companies that offer IR betting must show thier customer thier Pre-off and IR PnL seperately. and that this would meet the transparency objective of the Act and thier guiding principles. they gave ZERO justifcation - but rejected my request. clearly they think punters do not have the right to know where they lose thier money |
|
By:
In fact, I gave the GC a 11 page submission - that they included two lines in response to in thier 8 page repsonse to the various submissions.
read thjier response - it is laughable |
|
By:
Jeez magician you must be boring to know....
|
|
By:
If all the 'private' meetings between GC officials and betting company representatives were minuted for public record the reasons for their decisions might be more justified to the public. As it is it is very hard to understand. Why will Betfair not give the public access to all the data behind their document that said inrunning winners are winning no quicker than pre-race winners? If Betfair made all the data public threads like this would be unneccesary.
|
|
By:
R U 2 related ?
|
|
By:
Frog
as much as I like betfair - I think the data they supplied would be destroyed infront of the general betting forum. and for that reason it will never see the light of day. the GC only retains some micrscoipic credability because the data is not public to be verified |
|
By:
anyone think the GC might have been "got at"?
|
|
By:
would not specifically say that but would say
1) the people lobbiey them are smarter than them 2) the people lobby them know more about gambling than them 3) the poeple lobbying them can misrepsent data to them in a way they dont have the expertise to suspect is false or disprove or ask for justification 4) they work in the reality of goverment - 'dont overly constrict business' 5) lower posts of the GC dont get paid enough to attract someone that would be capable of reversing points 1,2 and 3. 6) people in high posts of GC get paid so much - they dont want to upset anyone and lose thier cushy number. and you can retype all six of those points for virtually every quasi governement regulatory board of group I have delt with |
|
By:
you have summed up things pretty well there magician.
|
|
By:
All lobbying is no doubt done over lunch at an expensive restaurant. It's not hard to imagine envelopes sliding accross the table.
|
|
By:
Are you saying that you believe that Betfair bribe the Gambling Commission ?
|
|
By:
I have this morning received a letter from my MP ,included was a copy of the response from the Chairman of the Gambling Commission made to the MP regarding my concerns on certain aspects of In Running Betting.
No surprise that the Chairman reiterated what i have previously been told. However. No mention of laying horses that have fallen,etc. No mention of the complaint i have made against him and the board,or why i made the complaint. No mention of Section 9 of the Gambling Act. What the Chairman did say was that they(the commission)see no problems at all with In Running Betting. So long as it is Fair& Open. So long as there is Integrety(no one would benifit from coruption, etc.) These points have been met.(apparently) The Chairman also stated that they felt that the message informing customers of the delays,slow/fast feeds etc,were enough to satisfy them not to intervene.(of course not,intervene,how ridiculous) But they would continue to monitor the Fairness&Openness of the situation.(thank goodness for that Mr Chairman, that's a relief) Ending with "We have received very little adverse feedback on our conclusions"(well i am glad to hear that mate, you and your board are doing a grand job) |
|
By:
Good.
|
|
By:
It was as expected.
It only means another appointment with the MP,etc. |
|
By:
vital
Go back to my orginal thread on thier conclusions - several peopled laughed at them, and highlighted thier inconsistancies.... so informed gamblers laughed at them... it is just veyr few ( maybe only you and me) bother to actively try and do anything about it |
|
By:
Magician,Your original thread where is that,i alas can not retrieve old threads.
Watch out artie's about |
|
By:
I find it hard to understand that any pre-race winner wd want or welcome the competition coming from IR winners.
It's likely that while winners have their niche, losers lose indiscriminately; and that shrewd fast-pic players are 1) cannibalising other losers; and 2) winning from at at a rate and degree of certainty that will repel these people from betting recreationally. Even if this is speculation, it's more plausible to me than the equally speculative remark, 'there is a whole breed of casual IR losers'. To me, the playing field is slanted and the warnings are insufficient to make betting 'open'. Imv a stronger regulator will come down on it (and on a lot of other ways of winning as well). |
|
By:
Betfair Customer Services 23 Nov 11:06
Because we know that in-play betting is one of the most popular aspects of our football offering, we are looking to offer more opportunities to bet in-play. Therefore, starting on Saturday December 5, we will be running a trial offering UNMANAGED in-play betting on the Match Odds markets of all untelevised matches in The Championship and selected matches in Serie B (the Serie B games will be confirmed in the Betfair Forum at least five days in advance). The Match Odds markets for these games will not be suspended for goals, penalties, red cards or at any other time. The bet delay for in-play bets on these games will be eight seconds. We will provide confirmation that this trial is taking place nearer to the event. In the meantime, if you have any comments, please e-mail them to bets@betfair.com. Lol their greed knows no bounds, more lambs to the slaughter in the pursuit of extra comms |
|
By:
I dont understand the justification for 8 seconds?
|
|
By:
The 8 seconds will be to convince the GC they're doing all they can to ensure fairness ;) and stop any hooverers snapping up the cash at the game.
|
|
By:
unmanged markets should have 1 seocnd like racing.
The GC has already said that is entirely fair, because the guys with fast pictures or on the corse, ensure the market is fair. so same should apply for unmanged soccer cant see how betfair or the GC could argue with that |
|
By:
The charts will look like a row of skyscrapers when the fast picture guys "see" a goal then realize that there has been an off-side.
|
|
By:
unmanged markets should have 1 seocnd like racing.
I don't believe in God bu I pray for this..... just like the horses....... Lovely. |
|
By:
Examination of Witnesses (Questions 765 - 779)
THURSDAY 22 JANUARY 2004 MR MARK DAVIES, MR DAVID WILLIAMS, MR ANDREW SILVERMAN, MR ROB HARTNETT AND MR KEVIN GRIFFITHS Q765 Chairman: Can we now welcome from Betfair Mark Davies, David Williams and Andrew Silverman and then from two other exchange companies, ******, Rob Hartnett and Kevin Griffiths from Sporting Options. Q770 Mr Meale: You have hundreds of thousands of clients registered, you are handling billions of pounds every year in facilitating gambling, that is your trade. Mr Davies: We are a bookmaker. Mr Davies: We are a registered bookmaker Q773 Mr Meale: Taking that into account just going back to my original question about whether or not you are a bookmaker. You say that you are, in your own publication it says "Betfair is a sport betting exchange not a bookmaker". How do you explain that? Mr Davies: That is a marketing document which is intended to explain to people why we offer a service which |
|
By:
I asked Betfair Bookmakers 2 questions.
Q.One. When did Betfair Bookmakers give out(date)the first warnings on the Horse Racing Market,feed delays,etc. Q.Two. Regarding Betfair Bookmakers own'Bet Matching Logic'. What recent, if any,Markets have you been trading,using the above. Reply. 23rd November 2009. Dear Dear Mr. ********* I am writing in response to your recent e-mails regarding the Betfair site. Firstly with regards to when we updated our Horse Racing Market text to include the caveat beginning "Customers should be aware that.........." unfortunately I cannot help you with this as we do not have that information on record. In response to your questions about which markets Betfair trade in I can confirm that we have a separate group company that operate out of Malta and are responsible for any trading requirements. The main function of our trading team is to hedge liabilities that arise as a result of customers placing bets on our multiples product. The team in Malta will assess Betfair's exposure and place singles bets into the exchange with a view to reducing our liability. The traders in Malta have no access to customer data and their bets are placed via a regular Betfair account which are subject to the same in-play delays as any other customer. Furthermore our operation in Malta pays commission to Betfair at the same rate as everyone else. Kind regards **** ***** Head of Customer Services Helpdesk Tel: 0844 871 0000 Eire Tel: 1 - 800 944 000 Australia Tel: 1- 800 644 738 Free Fax (Australia) 1- 800 507 774 International: +44 20 8834 8060 |
|
By:
For those still unsure about the delay this shows the difference in picture speeds. ATR (in middle) appears to be about 4 seconds behind RaceTech (far right). SIS is somewhere in the middle. Not sure if the delays are always the same as this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjd-Rq3rMAE Sorry about the low quality but you can clearly see the time difference when the camera angle changes. The horses are heading well down the straight on Racetech as they turn in on ATR. |
|
By:
The three and half people this affects, are v grateful ..
|
|
By:
You're probably right BT, there can't be any more than 3.5 who read the forum and don't know. Pity we couldn't get the message to the non-forum, brain dead hordes that are feeding the nomarks. You'd think that would be betfair's job.
|
|
By:
Mind you, I suppose if betfair owned up now they'd really have to use the pc to find replacements for the exodus.
|
|
By:
Yeah, it might be interesting, to see the number of unique names that contribute.
Unfortunately, its the same old faces .. |
|
By:
It's only a matter of time before some programme like panorama gets their teeth into all this **ing. A bit of secret filming in course trading rooms recording the boasts of mega winners (maybe fleecing a few quid tfor hemselves in the process) along with illustrations of the variance in feed delays (from racetech right through to cable), a demonstration of the market maker advantage and interviews with a few stunned, well shafted mugs would do no end of damage. Top it up with all the non-trying in horse racing and the fixed events in other sports and the damage is limitless. The programme would be used as anti-exchange propoganda in every country they're not already established in.
One of the other exchanges should take the moral high ground now and ban ir betting. If they don't exchange betting itself, not just betfair, might never recover. |
|
By:
As long as it doesn't come before the float betfair couldn't care less.
|
|
By:
yawn......
|
|
By:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............
|