Never have I seen anything as mental as that before!

I see a guy named Templeton scored for Burton yesterday. Is that the same guy that went from Hearts to Sevco?

If not, whatever happened to him? He looked a great player in the making as a young player at Hearts. What went wrong?

Thanks jambo. He looked a terrific young prospect when at Hearts. Went downhill fast after moving.

The only way they can get out this mess, is to produce 2 or 3 Billy Gilmour's from Murray Park and punt them for good money once they have played 50 games in first team, not impossible, but difficult.

Nothing to see here.

King akabula  has assured us that The Rangers are 'cash rich'. The Glib One has squillions stashed away under his mattress and will help them out when required. NAP.

did you not have time to explain on you're fleeting visit ?

Good to see you alive and kicking, Aka.  WATP indeed.  Nice result today.  Next!

I heard the same this morning, Stew.  Great news - esp if Stevie has taught him to control his temper.

We need a biscuit tin.

This is a good interview.

https://www.open-goal.co.uk/siferrymeetsjimmynicholl/

HMRC won't confirm, or deny, todays revelations (not really todays as its seemingly been known for months but got no media attention).
BDO the driving force behind this but they are merely seeking a bottom line agreement and cannot sue for false information.
However SDM can as the owner at the time of the false declaration assuming its true of course. Dave King could also sue for the loss of his initial investment in the club.
Be interesting times if substantiated. The damages claimed would be substantial and much more than the tax bill.

Calling joeybhoy. Spared your blushes at the time but have you now seen how wrong your post was on the 1st of November? Have you seen the error of your ways? Surprised that as an expert on all things pertaining to Rangers you made such a simple mistake.
Not only you but backed up by Malay and iam. I'll check back in a few days to see your apology.

Great result against Porto btw and got to wonder how much Morelos is worth.

Keep the Blue Flag flying Trilby.

here is the view form an EBT expert, whatever that means ?

CHANGE OF TAX Rangers tax case – EBT expert says HMRC hasn’t ‘blundered’, Oldco isn’t due money and taxman didn’t cause liquidation
EXCLUSIVE
Aidan Scott
15 Nov 2019, 7:21Updated: 15 Nov 2019, 7:23

A LEADING EBT expert insists it’s wrong to say an HMRC ‘blunder’ caused the financial implosion that sent Rangers spiralling into liquidation.

A bombshell report in The Times stated that as much as £50million could be wiped from the total tax bill owed by Gers’ old operating company.


It is also claimed that the final EBT bill could be as low as £20m and if this figure was known back in 2011 the club would never have been plunged into financial turmoil.

A tweet from HMRC's official account read: "As widely reported today and to clarify: HMRC won against Rangers’ tax avoidance in the Supreme Court, and did not miscalculate anything."

SunSport asked Thomas Wallace, who is Head of Tax at London-based firm WTT, to look at these claims and give an independent assessment of what it all means for Oldco Rangers and its creditors.

In an extensive Q&A Mr Wallace, who spent years working for HMRC and has spent the last 24 months fighting on behalf of companies embroiled in EBT disputes with the taxman, answers 18 key questions and says:

- HMRC have NOT made any serious mistakes in the case
- The taxman DIDN’T cause Rangers’ liquidation
- Oldco Gers AREN’T due any money back from the treasury
1. Has the taxman actually admitted to making any mistakes?

Whilst I would certainly say that HMRC is more than capable of making mistakes, it is difficult to see how they have here.

Whilst charging a 65% penalty needs HMRC to prove deliberate behaviour which is a very high bar where a taxpayer has taken suitable qualified advice as to their position, what has most likely happened is that HMRC have taken an unusually pedantic step of recognising that even if they were to pursue both the quantum of the assessment and the penalty levied back through the Courts, there will still be insufficient assets in the liquidation to gain any more than what they will on the new agreed basis.


2. Ally McCoist believes Rangers wouldn't have gone bust if it was known in 2012 that the final tax bill would be lower - do you agree?

I have to say I think that is incorrect given that the liquidation, even after these adjustments, is still only offering pennies in the pound to creditors.

3. Are Oldco Rangers due money back from the taxman?

No, because the liability had never actually been paid.

4. The £24m penalty figure in the original overall bill of around £94m had never been confirmed by any legal process - but was it a mistake by HMRC to originally ask for this? Why would they now drop the claim?

A penalty is charged in terms of a percentage, in this case 65%.

Therefore it cannot be levied until the final additional tax is agreed but I suspect it was lodged as a protective claim in the liquidation.

The legal process was still open to challenge this through the Courts but as I said above, I suspect there are sound commercial benefits of not pursuing the penalty where no funds are available to pay it regardless of outcome.

5. The Times article says up to £50m is set to be wiped off the tax bill. How likely is this, and what would you estimate the final reduction to be?

I can’t comment without hard figures around some of the variables but I think the important part is that in reality, whether £50m, £30m or £10m, HMRC were never getting that money. It just doesn’t exist.

6. A letter from HMRC says they are dropping the £24m penalty charge because 'there is no evidence of fraudulent or negligent behaviour'. So has the taxman over-reached himself by making the £24m claim? Why would they use such language if they still had a case?

Penalties are calculated on behaviour with the highest reserved for the most offensive conduct. Whilst I suspect HMRC may have overplayed its hand seeking a penalty of such a high threshold, it may have replaced it with a lessor one had there been funds available to pay it. As it is, another 5 years of litigation would produce no additional money for the treasury.


7. A further £2m worth of claims were overstated by HMRC and the figure has now been wiped off the original bill. Why would HMRC overstate figures?

I am not sure what this relates to, but again, I suspect it is more administrative in light of no funds being available to pay regardless.

8. Is it right to say HMRC could still pursue the full amount or close to it if they wanted, but have simply decided it's not worth the hassle?

Correct

9. Given that BDO won a reduction of unpaid tax to £68.3m in September 2018, what has actually changed now?

That is unclear until the next liquidation report is published.

10. How much money does Rangers Oldco actually now owe to HMRC?

Again, until the latest liquidation report becomes available all we know formally is that the penalty has been withdrawn (c£24m).


11. The Times claims £12m of interest charges is likely to be reduced "significantly". How likely is this, and by how much?

Interest is calculated on the tax not paid from when it should have been until when it is. As such if the underlying tax is reduced, the interest naturally reduces as a function.

12. So if HMRC do lose out on interest is it because they have lost the argument?

I believe it is because the pot available in liquidation is already exhausted and therefore there is no material financial benefit for HMRC to continue pursuit.

13. Will creditors now expect an improved return?

Improved, yes, but not substantially. The latest liquidators report shows that to that date an interim dividend of 3.91p in the £ had been paid, amounting to £1,365,856.

It then states that with the HMRC provision reduced by £30m, an additional £1m is available to creditors.

14. Who is the big winner from this development?

The creditors clearly come out of this in an improved position, but I’m not sure anyone is a big winner.


15. What about players who it is claimed have had penalties wiped out, are they due money back?

I am not aware that any player had the liability transferred to them, and therefore none to my knowledge suffered the tax or penalty.

This is in contrast to the thousands of EBT users who have been personally pursued by HMRC over the years.

16. What if they have gone bankrupt as a result, could they take legal action?

Possible, but an insolvency practitioner is best placed to answer this.




17. Could Oldco Rangers and Newco Rangers join forces if it was beneficial to club?

Hard to see how that could be done in law, they are two separate entities.

18. Could Sir David Murray or anyone else involved in the dispute sue HMRC, and how likely is it they would be successful?

This is a legal question more than tax, but I struggle to understand why as he has not suffered any personal financial loss.

Over 55 mill without HMRC bills, how can a football club in Scotland get into over 100 mill in debt ? Gross mismanagement or total arrogance ?

but i thought their assets were valued at a £1, or did whyte not get them for his quid ? the ground was not worth much for development (the area is a ****, with loads of industrial units empty), the football club was dead so the stadium was worthless to generate income ? The players had no value as they were free agents as the old club died, only mcculloch, broadfoot and wallace stayed to play for newco, as they knew they had no chance of getting same money elsewhere.

he done them a turn and started a new club to keep their bigotry going, nightmare for the rest of Scottish society though.

Horrible new club.

Usual sectarian bollox from ackiebigot.zzzzzzz.

Was going to post this on the celtic thread but seeing as most of them are on here I'll post it here.

Satorial guidance for celtic fans.

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Was in pub last night when cup draw was made..Stranraer away to sevco..some currant roared out.."fantastic draw for Stranraer..thats them financially stable for the next three years"... a wag responded with  "shame that can't be said for your lot"