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Food for thought - The power of Sir Alex, referees and the FA:

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Replies: 258
By:
A.H HUNTER esq.
When: 12 May 13 12:59
Sir Alex Ferguson: Man Utd boss intimidated referees - Redknapp


QPR manager Harry Redknapp believes officials have been "afraid to upset" Sir Alex Ferguson, as he praised the contribution of the retiring Manchester United boss.
Everton boss David Moyes, 50, will take over on 1 July from the Scot, 71, who announced his retirement on Wednesday.
"A lot of officials would be in awe of him and afraid to upset him," Redknapp told Radio 5 live's Sportsweek.
"There was such an aura about him because he is a winner."
Redknapp added: "I never had any doubts about that. If there was a bit of time to be added they would make sure they got it right because they did not want to upset him.
The truth about "Fergie time"
"When Man Utd were losing, they had an average of four minutes and 37 seconds added time, compared with three minutes and 18 seconds when they were winning"

Fergie time: Does it really exist?
"Especially young referees, and even one or two of the older ones, were a little bit afraid to upset him."
In January 2009, then-Liverpool manager, Rafael Benitez, made similar complaints. He said: "We know what happens every time we go to Old Trafford and the United staff.
"They are always going man to man with the referees, especially at half-time when they walk close to the referees and they are talking and talking."

  Yep even Arry boy knew .
By:
Diamond_Joe_Quimby
When: 12 May 13 13:02
Anyone see the cretins intrview in relation to Suarez. He was going on about the length of bans and was ranting about the 9 months Cantona got saying if it was today He wouldn't allow the FA to ban him for that long Crazy

Brilliant manager but Complete c**t like most of the sport today.
By:
buzzer
When: 07 Dec 13 15:27
They're missing him a little bit.
By:
mesmerised
When: 16 Mar 14 20:37
He would have never allowed 3 penalties at Old Trafford today.
By:
the bloob
When: 16 Mar 14 21:05
hard to believe that an away team can get 3 penalties in the same game at OT. In truth they should have had 4, not so long ago there wouldn't be that many given in a decade
By:
thelatarps
When: 16 Mar 14 21:29
brilliant post by the op
as more and more water passes under the fergus bridge you understand what a whole load of smoke and mirrors the man u/fergus project was
the epl put man utd in a fantastic position finance wise versus their english competition.
Then Wenger came along with his knowledge and connections in europe and threatened to derail everything
Stat today in the paper that wenger suffered 99 red cards, the most of any manager in the epl years
Fergus wasnt even 2nd with less than 50
it shows where the refs sympathies lay

Lets face it, like the all blacks in rugby union, it was good for business when fergus & man utd won
Its only natural I suppose
Jeventus win in Italy, Bayern in Deutsch, Madrid in spain
A bit like the irvine welsh story. A polis arrests a celtic fan and a rangers fan for fighting.
What does he do? Let the hun go and give the tim a doing in the cell
That way everyone goes away with their predujices confirmed.

We can make the most of Man U's down time the now, but sooner or later one of the glazers will work out the form and they will be on top again
Lets hope it takes another 26 years
By:
Solano1
When: 16 Mar 14 21:33
Chris Foy would have given all four.

He hates Chelsea.
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 16 Mar 14 21:52
Very good thread started by the OP. Time lends weight to the argument.
By:
TheBetterBettor
When: 16 Mar 14 21:52
LaTarp.

So what, Emlyn Hughes was in the freemasons (source wiki) and willing to pay bribes to arsenal players to win the league.

Thats why Liverpool won everything in the 70's
By:
This is for BIG Players only
When: 16 Mar 14 22:01
got to laugh at this nonsense, if the FA loved MU so much why did they ban Cantona and Rio for so long? and If Refs loved Fergie so much
why did they find it so hard to give MU a pen when Liverpool and Arsenal had more pens in an era when MU won the league 14 times?!
By:
stonecold-
When: 16 Mar 14 22:04
Laugh thebetterbettor have a day offGrin
By:
thelatarps
When: 16 Mar 14 22:15
There nowt particularly wholesome about LFC dominance of the 80s either
A plague on both your houses I say
LFC's dominance came about as a result of a turgid time in english football
It was the era of charles 'long ball' hughes and his FA handbook
LFC ignored it all, stuck to their boot room philosophies while the rest of english football slipped ever further behind europe

As a spurs fan I remember Souness going thru the back of Glenn Hoddle, a horrific tackle which put him out the game for most of the season
About a decade later I remember Bryan 'captain crutches' Robson doing the exact same thing to Sheringham
On neither occasion was the bullying northerner given their due marching orders

Let us not forget that the only time england ever had a decent national team was in a period in which there were 7 different winners of the div 1 title. A proper competition.  West Ham, famously won the world cup but fought off relegation ever year.

So Mr Better, you can take your toxic little north western feud and shove it where the squirrel stores his nuts. The rest of us would
prefer if the pair of youse kept your pretensions for the self styled 'biggest team in england' to yourselves.  We love the game.
We dont follow it in order to hate the residents of the town down the road
HTH
La Tarp
By:
wallis
When: 17 Mar 14 11:11
Did Charwell write the opening article or is it taken from somewhere else ?
By:
ours4keeps
When: 17 Mar 14 11:30
So tarps point is that the unwholesomeness of Liverpool's dominance is that they decided to play decent stuff while all around them played long ball guff. Someone call the feds!

As for the violent northern monkeys jibe let's not forget that not all southerners are pimms drinking fairies and the likes of Graham Roberts was a bit of a thug while Gazza, for all his talent, will always be remembered for injuring himself when he tried to cripple Gary Charles. Maybe tarps should check his surroundings before launching those stones.

As for the glorious (not at all dodgy and bent) 1966 win - it was 50 years ago ffs. And we only won it because it was held here.
By:
thelatarps
When: 17 Mar 14 12:38
Fair play O4k
the point i was trying to make, very poorly put I admit, was that at least LFCs dominance came about because they adhered to their principles
Man Utd under ferguson, well its my contention that he was allowed to dominate with the richest club in an era when the game became more about money than anything else

I think I speak for most fans when I say we view the LFC/ManU battle as a tedious provincial rivalry given far too much prominence by the uk media
When they were winning, supporting LFC in europe or Man U became something of a badge of honour for fleet street. As if to say 'well the national teams from the uk are never going to win anything so our best chance of seeing johnny foreigner getting a beating is nailing our colours to their mast'. Particularly with ManU being seen as more British under ferguson than multicultural arsenal or chelsea with their overseas managers

And let us not forget that Fergus got his template for referee intimidation from Liv, a fact he has acknowledged in a roundabout sort of a way. Well before Howard Webb there was a chap called George Courtney who was england's senior ref and referred to by LFC fans as uncle george.

When one team dominates a league as these 2 have been allowed to do in the recent past it is a poor state of affairs. Yes it happens all over europe and thats not ideal either but the last time I checked, the French, German, Spanish, Italian, Dutch national teams regularly appear at the business end of international tournaments which doesnt happen here.

You can scoff at 66 and while the south americans have legitimate grievances its worth while remembering that england went to mexico in 1970 as the best europe had to offer. The defeat to Germany in the quarters was a freakish result involving as it did an england team playing the germans off the park for the first 70 odd minutes.
Nowadays the best the english can muster is some sort of Park-The-Bus mentality, playing for extra time and penalties which we all know they haven't an earthly of winning. Same sort of tactics Man U and chelsea employed in their much vaunted champs Lg triumphs.

LFC in their day did dominate Europe playing a brand of shall we say continental possession football alien to much of what the football league had to offer. But they had a crucial advantage in that they were able to select Scottish and Irish players, as many as they liked when most of europe were reduced to at most 2 foreign players, none at all in some cases.

Its an odd anomaly that these 2 great empires of english football were unable to affect any sort of improvement in the standards of the national team the way that others like Barca, Bayern, Ajax, Milan and Madrid have done.

Almost as if LFC and ManU have become the de facto national teams themselves. I would argue especially in the case of Fergus that their success harmed the national team.

THe hope is now, that with all the money in the EPL it can lead to a stronger competition as in the late 60s early 70s when the national team was something to behold.
Would it not be great if a team like southampton could hold on to their all star players like Lallana and win a premier league title?
It may take a system of play offs and abandoning the tedious 30 odd game slog that does nothing but assist the rich.
Who knows LFC and Man U supporters may even get to develop a new set of rivalries and forget about the other lot down the road
By:
TheBetterBettor
When: 17 Mar 14 13:41
Golly gosh Ive seemed to upset mr tarps. Quite understandable since his club still pines for the Chas n Dave years. Laugh
By:
lurka
When: 17 Mar 14 15:26
How did Fergie's success harm the national team? By pulling players from friendlies and getting them to retire from Intl football early? What more can a club do than provide its top talents for the national team? Fergie wasn't the England manager as well.

The reason other Euro countries benefited from their great sides is probably got a little more to do with their international managers, the players themselves and media that are actually on the side of the team and get the whole country behind it. In England you have a gutter press and SKY which overhypes every single player in an England shirt and builds up the national team for a massive fall every time and it loves nothing more than to see the team fail and get stuck into the players and manager afterwards. The same hacks who hype the players slate them afterwards.

Hodgson is talked about as if he's some managerial legend. He's average at best. Even with the players England has now they should be doing a lot better.
By:
mesmerised
When: 17 Mar 14 15:39
Tbf to United, they provided us with Scholes, Neville and Beckham and during his reign probably provided more squad members than any other club, although I don't know the figures and there was a lot of big club bias over the years, Scholes who is the best English player I've ever seen retired early because he said he was tired of balls flying over his head, players hitting holloywood passes trying to get noticed b bigger clubs, Beckham one of few who really cared or at least looked liked it and Neville rarely had bad games.

The pressure the media puts on England built England up so high when they inevitably buckled under it, it was a long way down. Only positive to take is that we were always hard to beat in  tournaments hence countless penalty shootouts, only Germany in recent tournaments shave given us a battering.
By:
thelatarps
When: 17 Mar 14 16:51
It's surely one of the biggest myths surrounding ferguson that he was good for the national team. Wellbeck is about the only player in recent years and he's been farmed out to others who deserve as much credit. Not surprising given the rules demanding epl clubs stick to their local areas for young talent. Then again us spurs fans have long since laughed at the notion of the young beckham relocating oop north because of his love of Bryan capt marvel robson. Fact that father Ted was able to move house from leytonstone to leafy chingford after a certain red faced Caledonian had been spotted in the vicinity was probably nothing to do with it. Ironically enough the value of the house in leytonstone  would surpass that of unfashionable chingford these days but that's enough London house prices.
Anyway let's look at the facts. Scholes retired early, wether that was due to the dislike of the Gerard lampard axis or the fact that his agricultural style of tackling would not be looked upon as kindly by foreign refs as those in the epl, I know not. Wouldn't be the greatest stretch to imagine ferguson talking him into it either. Gigs phoned in more appearances for wales than anyone in the history of intl football. Beckham gave his all for the nat team and that among other reasons was why ferguson was so quick to get rid.
As has become apparent in recent weeks fergusons knowledge of the overseas transfer market was about as impressive as my understanding of the large hadron collider. Fergusons m.o. Was to buy from the epl thus strengthening his hand and weakening his rivals at the same time. Usually to the accompaniment of media sycophants and their sickening refrain 'man utd are the biggest club in the world'. Net result was that young English talent would either be underemployed on the bench or in the case of Rooney ran into the ground over the course of the punishing English season. Imagine had Rooney stood at Everton. He may have won the odd trophy even enjoyed a season or two in the ucl. But he would have understood what it was to play in a team where u have to work for every win. Where his occasional violent tendencies & snarling at refs would harm the team cause by his expulsion.  Quite a bit like playing for England. Anyway come the summer odds are that mr roo will be a whole lot fresher than in recent tourneys. Quite like the idea of him enjoying his best  World Cup whilst sitting on 300 bags/ wk of Man U money.
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