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SPOT ON!!! Take to nights coverage of man utd, clive tydlesley should be working for man utd t.v, eh hang on HE IS!!! You just wait and see all the decisions that will go against EVERTON if they have the AMBITION to try and break into the top four or een TRY and win the league, the ENGLISH FA will stop them !!!!
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a very thought provoking article sir
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very well written and very informative, the sooner Fergie retires the better for everyone
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You see where they sent poor Foy this weekend?
Accrington Stanley vs Rochdale . Threw the book at him ![]() |
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man lands on moon
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THE SWEET FA
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might as well give man utd the trophy now
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Is that a joke? Foy's seriously been demoted THREE divisions just because he didn't give them a penalty?
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tbf Biscuit it wasn't only that, he also failed to add 9 minutes on at the end
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Just looked it up, he actually has been sent to league two!
Fck me that is ridiculous. |
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surely that's not charwell starting another man utd thread is it???? does a day go by without him thinking of man utd?
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Why is it anti Man Utd? Have I attacked or written anything that is incorrect? I have reproduced an article for discussion which I found worth discussing. Perhaps you would like to contribute to the debate ina meaningful manner?
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no matter what time of day, there is always at least one man utd fan on duty to rebut any accusation
that doesnt suit their view on life is there an observer book for manchester united fans whereby they tick boxes and gain points for defending various points up for discussion |
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I never said it was anti-man utd, i just enjoy the irony that you always seem to point out whenever man utd talk about liverpool.
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Liverpool fan in making stuff up to suit their own agenda shocker.
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*man utd fans
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wHAT IS MADE UP ABOUT THE ARTICLE i PASTED PLEASE?
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fecdave 02 Oct 12 23:56
Liverpool fan in making stuff up to suit their own agenda shocker. to be fair everything in his post is true |
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all true from what i can see
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you do realise that the paranoia, that Brendan Rodgers has succumbed to much faster than i expected, does your own team no favours at all?
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Shaky fires in the usual rebuff "what about your club"
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when will the full list of penalties that United should have been given be produced please?
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the mover.....they started a thread on that very subject after Saturdays game
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In the 80s Liverpool got loads of decisions especially at anfield (the kop, especially in the days of standing used to have a massive impact on refs) these days its united who often seem to get favoured. But, you can find dodgy decisions for all clubs if you look hard enough
Everton Newcastle a couple of weeks back - Everton get two goals disallowed that on replay shouldnt have been VERY Next game against Swansea, Everton get a goal allowed when Fellaini had handled it. Swings and roundabouts? Or refs letting it go / giving benefit of the doubt because 6 days earlier they knew a fellow ref had messed up ? aka **** happens Why not explore some of Graeme Polls decisions with Liverpool for example - in some cases you'll find Liverpool bias, but then in other games seemingly anti liverpool decisions, so which was he, or was he just incompetent ? Brian Barwick who was chief exec of the FA for 3/4 years, liverpool fan - surely that is as relevent as - "Factor in the fact that Manchester United CEO is ON THE BOARD OF the English FA" - Barwick who was appointed in a role at Liverpool earlier this year. Do United get some dodgy penalties.. yes of course they do, show me a premier league club who hasnt in the past few years had a couple of pens that shouldnt have been given, given. Or indeed vice versa. Does Fergie TRY and intimidate refs and the FA, yes of course he does. He's not the only one who does it though, nor the only one who tries. I'm not saying its all innocent 100% and a certain degree of intimidation doesnt work, but if you want to look at potential corruption in the FA and refs, then you cant just look at incidents favouring one club, and say - there you go proof - whilst ignoring evidence involving other clubs. If you've been watching football since 1986, you'll have seen plenty of dodgy decisions go for your team and against it, but most fans only remember those that went against. Everton fans will name check Clive Thomas, or mention Alan Hansens handball, but we forget say, the disallowed goal Bolton scored in Autumn against us, in the season that saw them relegated and us stay up on the last day... Bolton fans remember it, but no doubt forget any dodgy decisions that went their way. Thing is, creating the paranoia and feeding it just plays into fergies hands - no matter what we do we cant topple united they have the backing of the authorities ! Well then thats the opposition mentally crushed. Dominance of a team like United, like Liverpool in the 80s, relies not only on ability, but also on mental factor, fear factor, and paranoia about refs just plays into that, its self defeating. Just look what happened to Rafa when he let it get to him, lets talk about facts - it doesnt matter if he was correct at the time, he made a fool of himself in the way he did it. The managers who have done the best against Fergie over the years have either laughed off anything he says, or done similar in return. Not whinged about it, those are the guys who get broken. Fergies influence on which refs they get ? I know about 4-5 years back a ref had a woeful time in an Everton game, Moyes complained and we didnt have that ref again for years. In fact it was Clattenberg after the Derby where Kuyt karate kicked Neville and anyone who saw it said straight red, but he wasnt carded. "Perhaps Clattenburg's fiercest criticism in top-flight refereeing followed his officiating of the Merseyside derby between Everton and Liverpool on 20 October 2007............... Clattenburg was not appointed to referee another Everton match until 2012." 5 years. Was that Moyes having sway over the FA ?? Or the FA protecting their own ref ?? As for Clattenberg not reffing united games because of the 6-1 game He was the ref who didnt give spurs that goal that was a yard over the line at Trafford He was the ref that let Nani's goal stand against spurs when spurs thought it was their freekick (the handball thing) Soooooo If he pro united or anti-united ? I am sure you'll find there are refs who get more or less of various clubs games, if you look. the problems with conspiracies and paranoia are that if you focus on one thing, you cant see the wood for the trees and everything begins to look like evidence especially if your mind is made up, if you cast your net far and look with open mind at the bigger picture, then often its not what it first seems. Footnote All that said, UEFA turned to Collina to ensure Everton didnt progress against Villareal and thus preventing England having 5 teams in the champions league (Platinis 'nightmare'). Collina retired, then came out of retirement for one game, disallowed a goal for Everton, then retired again the next week. See even the most even handed of us likes a little conspiracy ![]() |
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ah ok it's all a conspiracy thoery, thank goodness for that. I knew it couldn't possibly be true the idea of corruption in the English game and that it's only something that occurs elsewhere in the footballing world.
I can now move on .....FULL BANK Man United at Newcastle ![]() |
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I'm not saying English football is completely squeaky clean that is a different matter
But the idea that its corrupt and all aimed to benefit UNITED and only UNITED whilst ignoring any decisions involving other teams is very blind and naive. |
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Personally I thought it was a very funny article. I mean come on, anybody can produce "evidence" about virtually anybody and anything if they only look for facts or supposition to back their argument. It is a very poor article written by somebody who doesn't know the meaning of balance or context.
Here is something I prepared earlier for the OP, my mate charwell (hi mate ) as he quite likes Liverpool ![]() This is taken from the season Liverpool blew the league title; Penalties given to United 4 v Tottenham 5-2 v Liverpool 1-4 v Everton 1-0 v Bolton 2-0 Only one penalty made the result. Rest of them didn't change scoreline. Penalties given against United 3 v Fulham 2-0 v Liverpool 1-4 v Hull 4-3 Penalties (except Hull) were in matches where United lost. Number of United players sent off 5 Scholes v Fulham 2-0 Rooney v Fulham 2-0 Vidic v Liverpool 1-4 Vidic v Liverpool 2-1 Ronaldo v Man City 0-1 United lost every game in which a player was sent off (except City). Number of opposing players sent off 2 Robinson from West Brom (0-5) Wilkinson from Stoke (0-1) Let's look at Liverpool now. Penalties given to Liverpool 5 v Villa 5-0 v Villa 5-0 v United 4-1 v Newcastle 5-1 v West Ham 3-0 5 wins. Penalties given against Liverpool 2 v United 4-1 v Wigan 1-1 Only Mido's penalty cost them one point. Number of Liverpool players sent off 0 Number of opposing players sent off 10, YES 10 !! Barton from Newcastle (3-0) Folan from Hull (3-1) Friedel from Villa (5-0) Vidic from United (4-1) Vidic from United (2-1) Lampard from Chelsea (2-0) Adebayor from Arsenal (1-1) Valencia from Wigan (3-2) Zabelta from Man City (3-2) Cahill from Everton (2-0) More than a quarter of league matches with Liverpool playing in advantage of one player. Nine wins, one draw. So what does all that mean? Naff all imo. Maybe that is because some people don't always look to blame anything and everything after a loss. Yes we can have a moan about a decision but United lost to Spurs because they were excellent in the first half, we dominated in the second half but missed chance after chance. Might have had a penalty but didn't. It happens doesn't it. Some clubs blame the ref, some clubs blame the FA, some clubs talk about conspiracies against them, some clubs blame SAF, some clubs blame lack of funds, some blame the woodwork. One club blames all the above......... |
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All of the threads on this sort of topic get turned into a list of incidents when a certain team feel they got treated unfairly, and I'm sure we've all seen hundreds of them a month! But what the initial post was about is the selection of referees for matches and how those selections come about. It implies that certain clubs (in this case Man Utd, but I would expect there are others) have certain referees selected for their matches because they haven't had a "run-in" with that referee. Forgetting Howard Webbs number of penalties because without looking back at each one I couldn't say whether they were the correct decision or not...just by quoting a number of penalties he has awarded is twaddle if they were all penalties. Does anyone know how the referee for a match is decided, because I don't. It does seem strange that Mark Clattenburg hasn't been the ref at another United match since the City one..is there a good reason for that?
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That post about the United and Liverpool stats above was posted by a United fan on a popular Liverpool FC forum. The reaction was hilarious. honestly I was crying with laughter.
See what you think; Penalties given to United 4 v Tottenham 5-2 WASN'T A PEN AND CHANGED THE GAME AS WELL AS THE SECOND FOUL, ADVANTAGE GIVEN WHEN TOTTENHAM NEVER HAD THE BALL v Bolton 2-0 WAS WORSE THAN WEBB'S DECISION, WORSE PEN DECISION EVER SEEN, THEIRS FOUR POINTS U HAVE BEEN GIVEN. Penalties given against United 3 NO MENTION OF BORO YESTERDAY SHOULD HAVE HAD A PEN, NEVER KNOW WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED AFTER THAT. COULD HAVE DRAWN SO TAKE 2 OFF. THE BLACKBURN ONE AT Old Trafford. INSTEAD OF GOING 2-1 BEHIND U WON 2-1. THEIRS ANOTHER THREE POINTS ADDED TO THE OTHER 4. COULD HAVE BEEN 4+2+3=9 Number of United players sent off 5 ALL DESERVED (pmsl) Number of opposing players sent off 2 ROBINSON WON THE BALL AND PARK GOT HIM SENT OFF. RONALDO KICKS OUT AT STOKE TWICE NOTHIN DONE ABOUT IT THEN GETS WILKINSON SENT OFF. TWO MORE REF DECISIONS. POSSIBLE STOKE GAME AFFECTED BY IT SO 9+2= 11 Penalties given to Liverpool 8 APART FROM ATLETICO ALL PENS. AND SHOULD BE MORE. ![]() ![]() Number of opposing players sent off 10 BARING LAMPARD, WERE CHELSEA WERE THE POORER SIDE ANYWAY, NEVER DESERVED TO GO, SOME MAY SAY 4 YEARS TO LATE THOUGH AFTER HE BROKE ALONSO'S LEG. HOW ABOUT GIGGS GOAL AT UPTON PARK WERE HE GOT THE BALL FROM OFFSIDE POSITION. AND GIGGS SETTING ROONEY UP AGAINST PORTSMOUTH. 4 MORE POINTS. 11+4=15 NOT TO FORGET THE DRAW WIT STOKE WHEN WE SCORED AN NOT GIVEN. 15+2=17. LOOK AT THAT AND WE HAVE WON THE LEAGUE, NOW TELL ME HOW THE OFFICIALS HAVE NOT HELPED MAN U. 17 POINT SWING. 11 POINTS CLEAR WITH 12 TO PLAY FOR. Oh no we didn't realise Liverpool were 11 points clear with 12 to play for, we are fecked......... ![]() ![]() Seriously though, how funny are football fans? |
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themover
this is what the referees body has to say about Chris Foy and it probably answers some part of your question; "There are 16 select group officials who are rotated around ten games - it would be remiss of anyone to suggest that he has been demoted," Phil Dorward, head of PR for PGMO, told Goal.com. "He’s done five out of six [Premier League games] so far this season but the select group don’t just do Premier League games they do Football League games as well. "Howard Webb was on a Football League game a couple of weeks ago and all of our officials will be doing Football League games over the course of the season." Dorward also expressed his belief that Foy, who refereed the 2010 FA Cup final, will be back in the top flight the following week. "He has refereed more games than most [at Premier League level]. There are 16 guys who can ref our games every week and there are only 10 games so six of those guys will be without games," he added. "I’ll be astonished if Chris is not [back in the Premier League next week] but the point is it’s not a demotion. Categorically not." |
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Penalties given to United 4
v Tottenham 5-2 v Liverpool 1-4 v Everton 1-0 v Bolton 2-0 Only one penalty made the result. Rest of them didn't change scoreline. That is seriously flawed reasoning !!! To assume that what happens after a pen awarded would have happned anyway is absurd IMO .So you are saying it didn't matter that Webb gave the pen v Spurs because United would have won 4-2 anyway ![]() that pen was awarded while the score was 0-2 and Spurs were looking comfortable .Every pundit agreed that the decision turned the match |
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thanks Peter. It doesn't really explain how it is decided, for example, A Taylor is selected for the Chelsea v Norwich match or P Dowd for the West Ham match (notice I avoided Howard Webb
). I accept they are on rotation but are they on rotation for selected venues or is it based on location or something else? |
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tobermory
I am not saying anything mate. I copied and pasted that to show how ridiculous these sorts of arguments are. The one that I pasted was obviously written by a United fan, I am sure a Liverpool fan could conjure up something for a different season to add weight to their argument and so on. |
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ok fair enough.
I do think the context in which a pen is awarded is important .One of the most absurd awards i ever saw was for Bolton at Old Trafford about 2006/07 ish , just could not even imagine why it was given .But the score at the time was ManU 4-0 Bolton and it was the 94th minute . But that will show up in those sort of stats to prove that particular ref is not afraid to give teams pens away to United. |
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The refs are picked on various things. The location of the ground relative to where they live or were born, their standing in the refs merit table and also how often they have reffed a particular club already that season. There are other factors but I can't remember them.
Oh and which team they support, Howard Webb supports Rotherham Mike Jones- Liverpool Mike Dean- Liverpool Clattenburg- Newcastle Marriner- Everton I honestly don't know of one who owns up to supporting United. |
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found this write up which is quite interesting :
http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/20069 |
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Fergie time? Utd games last 18 secs on average longer when they are losing.
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there are some bad refs around, not all of them, but i find , in general, that the standard of reffing in european games is miles better than that in premier league
is it because i am more bothered, or take a keener interest ??? ref last night in cluj v man utd was more or less a stereotype of the way games have been reffed in europe since euro 2012 our premier league refs seem, at times, to have missed the message |
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Mark Halsey & Howard Webb to referee all United's remaining fixtures this season.
Just been on SSN. |