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did jesus of the new testament exist??
did jesus of the new testament exist??
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Replies: 563
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apocalypse - isn't an ending, it's a new beginning.
it's only an end to evil. perhaps you need to read the book, over the tv propaganda. |
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Fair comment I suppose.
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Get EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT by JOSH MCDOWELL.
Get a red letter new testament...Jesus didn't actually say that much...  Get David Suchet reading the new testament if yer don't wanna read it... |
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Watch the film RISEN made in 2016 starring Joseph Fiennes.
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I'm afraid the assumption by Christians that non-Christians have only to read the Bible to see the TRUTH is incorrect. I have read the whole thing ( with a possible bit of skipping round Kings and Chronicles which cover the same ground ). It's an odd mixture really isn't it ? Part myth,part history,part nationalist propaganda in the OT. Then in the New Testament the obvious switch by Paul to make Jesus a universal rather than just a Jewish figure. Then the bonkers bit known as Revelations ( a bit similar to Ezekiel in the OT ). I keep meaning to have a go at the Apocrypha but there are numerous different versions of that it appears.
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Well, you're right to be afraid.
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Jesus told parables in order to HIDE information, as well as to reveal it. Note the end of the Gospel of Luke when Jesus' disciples walk with the resurrected Jesus yet do not recognise him..."Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures."
Jesus told parables about sowing seeds, fruit, trees, etc...most times, the seed is received yet lies dormant for many seasons... |
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Must also recommend - in passing - the Caravaggio masterpiece in the National Gallery, titled "Unlikely I Would Say" featuring the figure in red and the big chicken on the table...and the TS Eliot poem "Hey Dude, This is Highly Unlikely IMO," as quoted below...
Who is the third who walks always beside you? When I count, there are only you and I together But when I look ahead up the white road There is always another one walking beside you Gliding wrapped in a brown mantle, hooded I do not know whether a man or a woman --But who is that on the other side of you? |
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the assumption by Christians that non-Christians have only to read the Bible to see the TRUTH is incorrect
Salmon Spray is right. The Bible could be compared with the complete works of Shakespeare in that there has been more Horlicks written about it than is actually contained in it and that's some feat in itself. Time to listen to a bit of Sam Harris and get a reality check. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CvCyMeAH8I |
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Can I just point out that, HOPEFULLY
 , you are all gamblers on this forum, and when you talk about this Jesus fella, the stakes are very high, that is, unless you have a low opinion of yourself, Eternity, etc. |
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Would also like to point out that the Saul / Paul fella knew the Old Testament back-to-front and inside-out, but he was every Christian's nightmare until he was temporarily blinded on the road to Damascus.
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FOINAVON - what the fook...? Why are you even bothering with this Bible stuff - get back to the drawing, man! You should be using this precious time to prodiuce a more RATIONAL portrait of Kate Bush for Crags!
 I've tried to evangelise for a more rational way of looking at the world, hence those squares and that green matrix sh1t! I mean, I don't wanna stifle yer creativity, fella, but at present, Bush is looking like the wild, wicked witch of the west! Now get back to your drawing board and get that fookin' ruler out! |
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Ayup Vel
Why aren't you listening to Sam Harris? I dug that clip out especially for you.Kate Bush nearly finished man, you will see it in the next day or two and marvel  I just finished the Temple at Karnak pastel painting and will submit a photo tonight. I been workin' hard man.  |
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Yes, I will listen to Sam Harris in good time, but I just don't want you ending up drawing like Rolf Harris!
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I don't want to end up like him either! |
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 "FOUR LADS WITH A CHICKEN AND SOME BREAD" also known as "UNLIKELY I WOULD SAY" BY MICHELANGELO DA CARRAVAGIO. |
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John Berger's WAYS OF SEEING...ep 1 - youtube...near the end, Berger shows a print of this painting to some working class children ;
KID A  ..."They've stolen the food and they're dividing it..."KID B..."It's a lady..." KID C...after the fuss dies down..."It's Jesus..." |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYiuM43u0Q4
a real mystery in the bible? if you like puzzles, it'll make you wonder about it. go to minute 49 of this video on youtube. Chuck Missler - once in charge of western digital, the guys that make the best hard drives for computers. This guy has been one of the best deal makers in the technology business in the 20th century. He's not a Rube. |
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The Bible was written in Greek first well you learn something every day..
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The NEW Teatament was.
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. |
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Anyhow it's a load of baloney dividing number 7 into a stack of words to prove how amazing God is.
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seven is god's number, it means completion. perfection.
six is man, 5 is grace. you watched the clip - so how does an author in the first century structure the verses in such a way to be a statistical impossibility? 10 to the power of 50 being a mathematical impossibility. It goes way past that by many factors. |
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John Berger's WAYS OF SEEING.
I see the work of a master. The play of light and shadow, believable human form in four different poses extremely well observed, the natural folds of cloth and the harmonious use of colour. Caravaggio was a flawed genius, a talented villain who lived too long for some of his contemporaries but died far too young for those who love art. |
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It's baloney a monkey and typewriter could write the bible..eventually..
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no god just a magagian
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I couldn't listen to that clip for more than a couple of minutes, BM. Did he mention anything about walking on cracks in the pavement?
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span
attention gnat of eternity beckons... i'm sorry but it was an hour long... what did you expect of me... what fiery pit do you want me to stoke? pit 2372667b? for a million years? sure I can do that. then pit 2372667c for double that? sure. anything you say. |
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Everything in the Bible is true because if you divide the number of Chapters in it by
the number of words and multiply it by all the letters in the bible beginning with the letter S then use this number to deduct the number of hours you have wasted your time doing it and rejoice and repeat God is great 1 million times.H.T.H. |
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Aw come on Zoz, lighten up! Can't you see it's all a big con? Suits making good money out of the gullible?
There is no fiery pit, nothing to be scared off.  |
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of course he did its a proven fact, the question is was he god, man , or god /man
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Did Jesus ever say we are going to a fiery pit? Did he even say there is a fiery pit waiting for those who forgot to say his name and god in the same sentence? Chapter and verse, please.
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Ya gotta work out your own salvation with no explaination.
To this earth we fall. On hands and knees we crawl. And we look up to the stars and reach out and pray to a deaf, dumb and blind God who never explains. |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ZZVJ120A4
Best video ever.. |
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Only Jesus mentions hell, the old testament make allusions to it. There is a parable about lazarus and the rich man -
Luke 16:19-31New International Version (NIV) “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced heaven if someone rises from the dead.’” ------------- "Hell in the NT is not used as a threat to convert, but noted as a matter of fact that is taken for granted, and as the eventual place of evildoers (though the evildoers themselves are not the "audience" addressed; for example Jesus' warnings to Sidon, Capernaum, and the Pharisees, were not obviously given TO them in person). Jesus mentions hell the most in the NT, but even he says little (the word is found only 23 times in the KJV, and most of those are by Jesus, and include Synoptic parallels; "heaven" is mentioned over 250 times, but mostly as in the abode of God)." website capture. |
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So unlike Lazarus, you had your warnings from Jesus. A man that died and came back. But as the passage says - you don't want to listen... too busy. Enjoy the diggin.
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Thought that would keep you busy for a while.
It looks like I'm doomed, didn't realise Jesus could be so cruel. Everyone told me that he was a good man. All this and my worst crime is the intellectual one of not recognising the Emperor's new clothes.  |
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he was a lamb the first time to save you. He comes as a lion now. to sweep all evil off the earth. If you want to hang onto your evil? he has to sweep you away. Evil gone. lesson learned - mankind moves on.
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When I get there I'll send you a postcard Zorro. You will have to excuse the whiff of sulphur and the charred edges as it can't be helped. I would welcome a recording of celestial harps in return.
Did you listen to the Sam Harris recording Zorro? He makes some good points which could help you lift the yoke of religion from your shoulders. You too can be free of this iniquitous burden. |
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https://inebriatedpress.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/090531-in-hell-and-loving-it.jpg
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He did exists AFAIK and lots of evidence exists, but as to whether he was the son of god, totally different question.
It's a bit like you're asking "Does David Icke" exist... When the REAL question you should be asking is "Did Jesus wear a turqoise shell suit?". And that my friends, is an ecumenical matter. |