Dante Stakes

Personally, I am more enthused by Jan Hus and John Wycliffe, but that could just be the drink talkin'.

Tune in later for cryptic Dante quiz question!

PARABLE OF THE DANTE WINNER...just waiting for the mods...

Dusty - no, I'm saying Satan had every right to address Jesus - see the Book of Job - and that Satan had or has legitimate power - see the Genesis story where God delegated power to Adam (man) and Adam handed over this power to Satan.

Jesus legally took power back by what seemed like an act of POWERLESSNESS - that is, he was totally powerless at the cross...yet the crucifixion was like a black hole, drawing all darkness and making a spectacle of the powers of this world.

"...having cancelled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us...He took it away, nailing it to the cross! And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross." From COLOSSIANS.

I can not pretend to see anything other than complete ambiguity in all that Velasquez.
'Power, legality, darkness, debt, disarm, triumph'

There Is No Doubt Luther And Calvin EXISTED. The OP was sceptical about the very existence of an historical Jesus. A lot of us who don't believe he was God have pointed out that there is evidence that the man Jesus existed. I think it's likely he was an Essens. Somebody else thought he was a follower of Socrates.
So in a sense most of the Christians and agnostics/atheists are in agreement on the original question.

Yeah, yeah...Essenes, Pauline, Zico, gnostic, hippie-dippie, Jesus Christ Superstar, pub bore, Wotsits munchin'...yadda yadda...

"And once you're gone,
you can never come back
When you're out of the blue
and into the black."
Neil Young.

And now, regarding Calvin and Arminius and so on ; regarding the mystery of free will and predestination, it is presented to thee as a parable and jest in the form of a hearty pictograph...GUESS THE DANTE WINNER!

Er...thanks for trying, pal...I'm away to google what that word means in Arabic...I like yer Bush by the way......though it looks more like a HOT GOSSIP dancer...

Erhaab...open minded, gracious...does this sound right? I can see this is gonna be contentious!

Anyway, it ain't what I've got in mind...nice try sucka, but ya don't win the pineapple!

HALLELUJAH!!!

And it only took two goes, like Adam and Jesus! Congrats to FOINAVON!

I guess you'll be wanting that PINEAPPLE now?

So the tale goes.....

Which is elaborated upon by those with vested interest to continue its agenda by saying the fact we show bashfulness today is proof it happened....when infact it was more likely that the presence of the story is what shaped the collective mindset.
Since those that hadn't heard it showed no intrinsic shame.

Salmon Spray - does that look like an Arabian-type head to you...?

being naked isn't shameful - being corrupt still is?
although it's getting less so now.
most politicians rarely resign over affairs now.

The rules of the universe. Evil works within the rules.
Satan aka Samael - is the opposition.
who does he oppose - MAN.
there's the old tale he rolls up and offers you whatever you want for your soul.
Maybe it's a new job with perks or it's a chunk of world power. The price is
irrelevant. Because your stay on earth is temporary and he gets it back.
makes you sign a legal document... that's just holy wood fluff.
He's the legal eagle. He's the prosecutor.
In the book of JOB he marches into heaven and says hello to God. God says.. whats up where have you been dog... Samael gives a vague answer back, thinks God doesn't need to know - he doesn't need the grief. HERE and THERE.
Hey God can we test JOB... he's getting all he wants down on earth and needs to be tested. He doesn't love you... he loves the stuff you give him. Samael gets God's permission upfront.

the rules of the universe - God made Samael, he made everything. Everything works because God makes it work. Without God everything that is being sustained, will crumble.
So Samael asks for permission, Samael was chief worshipper of God before the fall. He works within the rules.

If you don't have grace, belong to God. Your his puppy. He doesn't need permission to test you.
He'll have to announce his intentions to you if you are a believer.
Do you want a burger?... it'll fk you up it's that good. (declaration of intent).

The worlds rulers all go to the cathedrals - the kings/queens, the presidents, all doff the cap to God. because Samael is observing the chain of command. Without God's authority - he has no authority. No house to mess up. He has the authority that Adam lost. He's the boss till the new management arrives.

You can choose God or the WORLD (and it's systems 666) 6 is the number of man, 5 is grace, 7 is god, 8 is completion.

what systems? - religion, laws, politics. they are short of God's perfection.

the law will convict you. There's thousands of laws you are not aware of? and anyone can fall short of that system - Kafka points that out.

put your faith in religions - any flavour you want but vanilla. You don't want boring vanilla? the original and best. heck - become a lack luster pastor - bonus points.

Trust a politician? never understood why people go along and give them credence - they say join the party and make a difference - the world doesn't change, it changes you.


NOW remember Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah - to me one of thee most important things he did. He read part of the verse and then stepped back and left the building.
he only did what he said in the synagogue from that scroll. 
so find Isaiah 61 - and read on.

because part two of the two parter is coming up. He's at the door. Curtain up. act 2.
enter stage left - Jesus enters and steals the show.
Evil is destroyed and the Jewish people get a king. He gets David's throne and the prophecies are fulfilled that are still outstanding.
Death is gone. Sin is at an end. immortality is bestowed on all that are saved. Judgement falls on the ones that talk BS and don't like light shone on their fig leaves.

I know certain parts reasonably well, but there's much I am going to read to fill in the gaps so I can give a true appraisal.
I maybe some time

One question for you zorro and its personal.
Do you actually make a profit here by defeating other's opinion at gambling, and if so how does the knowledge that you are thriving off the ruin of others sit within the nature of your belief?

Dusty - I don't know if you've heard of the legendary poster Cubone - but he got me a little VICTORIAN book called THE MORAL ACT OF GAMBLING - a terrific read...GAMBLING - THE MORAL QUALITY OF THE ACT or something...

But...why pick on Zorro? Don't you realize that, by asking him that question, you are judging yourself?

I do recall cubone.
I suspect the book didn't cover the exchange mechanism, and perhaps was written on the basis of justification of the plucky punter who could never amount to much more that a scratch against the turf accountant.

I'm not singling out zorro, it's just if you, like me, act in a manner of profit before prophet then cutting the throats of others bares little significance....I just wanted to hear how that circle is squared.

"I suspect the book didn't cover the exchange mechanism"

Dunno...quite a bit of P2P gambling going on in the Bible...