You suggest zorro I shouldnt ask questions, yet it says in Genesis that the nature of sin is the knowledge of good and evil.
That we are cast into this sin by default as the sin of the father.
So if the manifestation of my natural sin is to know the difference between good and evil....isnt it prudent to determine the meaning of sin itself? (otherwise how do I determine what is good and what is evil?)
Besides, or are you saying only the pious may question science?

If you look back at the census back then you find it's all true.

i'm suggesting this - look first at a blue letter bible.

It's online.

If you read the bible it's not a literal book. it uses imagery.

He shone as bright as the sun. (what 5000 degrees kelvin?)

it was read by Paul, it was read by people in the year 600 AD.
it was read by the victorians. and now by the evolved people of the 21st century.

Should God have re wrote it for each generation? given you equations for creation, sent a special note to Richard Feynman - with the details.

It's not a literal book. It's more like a puzzle book.

see the cartoon - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BGO9Mmd_cU

At first people lived to a 1000 on average then some pratt spoiled it.

god made it around a 120.

You said eve bore a son and called his name Seth, for she said, “God has appointed"

now read out what the first ten in the lineage - what their names mean?

Adam is man. the hebrew words have meaning. every letter has a meaning.

so look up the meanings of their names.

He shone as bright as the sun. (what 5000 degrees kelvin?) That is called an idiom

Ive got the book 'the bible code'....should I infer the code in that also?

Im about to have my tea, I shall return zorro but I wish you to know this before the time out.
Im not here to discourage you or anyone else, Im here to discuss elements which the religious deem of vital importance and that knowledge is for myself alone.
Whether people read our discussions is of no significance to me.
You are also blasé when you dismiss the realities of life.
Im bound to question, and I need to make money.
These two are constants that I cant effect....unless i close off my brain and rely on charity.

google exists? if it's knowledge to fight god you want?

i'm not a minister, I studied art and graphic design.

my school mate ended up in seminary college, met him on a job.
I wonder if he's an atheist now?

If you are not playing games and are sincere (i'm not that gullible am I? )

then Chuck missler on Youtube has learn the bible in 24 hours on video.

please be aware playing games with God's words is not a good idea. I've taken some liberty with some of my own interpretations, every man reads his own story in the book. He either sees the crimes and the rapes - the dark side only or he sees only the loving side of God. The book is independent of the reader. it's not PC for the 21st century Hipster class.

Do not take the lords name in vain.


CS lewis also has lectures on Youtube about the bible.

Adam means man, one word into the book and it's going wrong. You need to know what it's trying to say. the fig tree is the nation of Israel. So don't think he's talking about
figs.

movie makers call this SUBTEXT. something else is being discussed under the table.

Science is only discovered by investigation.
It's the same with anything. God introduces himself to you at a party, starts a conversation, but some people turn away before he can give them his contact details. Therefore they never get to know him. He's not a stalker that pushes his love. So he won't chase them up. They have to seek him out. They are aware he exists?

God gave us laws - ten. We disobeyed them. he gave us more - we broke them all(over 600). If there was a law not to take smarties up into the space station? don't you think one astronaut would smuggle a few up there. It's the nature of man to be rebellious.
the lesson is simple - sin leads to death and corruption. Those that get it? will not repeat the mistake again, when we are reunited with god on his plane of existence. It'll be like looking at a cooker ring at full blast and wanting to put your hand on it?
God could have said nothing to Adam and eve about the tree of Knowledge of good and Evil. he could have sat an angel beside it and told him to shoo them away... But he's revealing he knows the nature of temptation. Temptations come with consequences. If you like cream cakes, satan doesn't tempt you with sausages.

the crux is this - everyone is a sinner. in thought or deed. nobody can keep the law. the law is Satan's favourite thing.(he's a lawyer in JOB) he convicts you of a crime. he owns you. until you call up the defence lawyer(jesus) jesus shows the cops the Habeas corpus.
gets you free forever. Those that don't have a good lawyer on their side gets to go to trial.
a good christian knows he can't avoid temptation, he'll back slide somewhere but he tries to live up to jesus expections. But no action will save you from hell. only Christ has paid the full price. no man can buy heaven with good deeds.
some Christians don't understand this concept. called grace. they think deeds will get them into heaven, but they see themselves back slide and it's like a busted diet? becomes a scales of justice scenario.  ten good things and one bad thing? No.

It's not based on fear? it's love.

the bible is a love story - between Mankind/womankind and God.

God made us SPIRIT/SOUL and BODY. God is Spirit(jesus says this).

Yes be fearful of God, it's said that is the start of wisdom but it's the same as a child's fear of his father. You steal from the shops as a kid, you get caught, you know your father is going to give you a tanning. If you don't learn from that lesson and continue it, you are letting your father down again?

In the book of revelation there are three groups.. the bride of christ, the body of christ and the beast.

Those that have faith, those with a little faith and those with no faith (they oppose christ).

an army of non believers, who oppose christ, anti christs, one army - called the beast. the beast system. Man believing Man is self justification. being self righteous. This is the cardinal sin against God. The refusal of the holy spirit.
You ask for the holy spirit and it will be given to you if you are faithful.

it's passed, Jesus is delayed - he said he'd be delayed
He's waiting for me.


Well I dont know about all that, maybe Ill come across it in time. Setting a date far off means you cant be proven wrong, what are they going to do next year if it doesnt come to pass?
Dance on his grave?

This isnt mocking but every horror film I seem to recall makes the good guys look like ****.

There is a constant though, which maybe the origin of people's insecurities and that is the enduring lack of answers to anything of substance coupled with an implied sense of security based on things they observe nearly always being how they learned them to be through experience.
Even science at quantum level states that however wild the prediction if theres a 1/x in front then its a certainty however seemingly unlikely, so at some point something completely left field will occur and shock everyone.
I remember reading Michio Kaku refer to something similar as waking up on mars (due to the wavelength of some of the human cells), its not that its impossible its just no single individual lives long enough for it to have ever happened.

Ive not seen it but Im sure he doesn't have the monopoly on uninspirational discourse.

The junior schools (Including Middle) I went to were CoE, we would be handed hymn books on entry and we'd be forced to knock out at least two songs per assembly, twice a day.
On occasion the twee Head Master would toddle down from his tower and witter on about some story from the bible.
No other religion was ever mentioned and what is now called RE (as a subject) was basically colouring in outlines of shepherds and camels.
It was all forced arm up back, much like the message itself in many respects.

The only images I remember were of Robert Powell as Jesus cutting a rather pathetic figure even then, but it wasnt until I saw him again in 'The Detectives' with Jasper Carrot that I thought it all seemed something of a symbolic hero rather than actual. (that was flippant again)

You know the 'message' in all forms would hold more gravitas if it were humans that had created themselves in the first place.
To talk in a framed language of 'good', 'evil. 'choice' 'love' and 'freewill' all comes under scrutiny when in terms of choice it comes down to a creator forcing a creation into being, then willfully abandoning them when they choose the wrong option of two.
The term 'faith' means something which you can justifiably believe strongly enough in to back with conviction.
I couldnt faithfully say that image of creation to be of love of goodness.

For a 'father' to create some form of offspring and then shed responsibility is bad enough, but at least the spawn grows into something that equates to the father.
But for a superior to create an inferior and then punish them into an existence they cant leave with torture doesnt nurture a belief in 'love' to me.

The act of giving life and rearing them promotes Love and thats enough, to then punish them for not being what the father desires is vindictive imo.

With that in mind I have no problem if the spiritual mind can be shaped by good deed to such an extent that they are drawn to the goodness of godly intent, but to put faith in anything from the mouth of man alone is like handing a knife to a fellows hand and simply hoping they dont choose to cut your throat....the armour with which we treat suspicion is the armour that keeps us alive.

Man - that's a thick pea soup of misunderstanding of God there.

God is refining us. He is making us perfect spiritual creatures. We are going to be on God's level with him on his plane of existence. To get there, we have to shed our sins voluntarily. we have to surrender. To God's authority.
Pride is the problem. The angel's rebelled because of pride. man refuses God because of pride.

You just described it yourself 'if man created himself...'- Johnny cash said it too - we want heaven but we don't want God in it.

Everyone here on earth is under some authority, they pick their own Gods, Rock gods, Sports or science heroes. They pick some belief system. They are false religions and satan makes one a year. David Bowie openly tells you he worships Satan. We laugh it off. Many celebs do this. Is it all shine-ola? the universe works with rules and these people are declaring themselves to be Satanists because it's the rules. You worship them and that worship gets passed on. 

the bible says that Satan isn't against Christ, he'll replace him. He'll oppose him. the people with him are the same they oppose christ. Little baby anti christs with axes to grind. Petty judgements on God. They refused the holy spirit and don't know God they look at the bible and mis read it as you are doing. you are still reading the surface meanings.

the bible says there will be some that say - over here - jesus is here? False prophets. He's in the desert. etc. Jesus says as I leave so I shall return - every eye will see me at once - he's going to descend from the sky and there will be no doubt who he is.
if a guy changes lead to gold and says he's jesus - he's not jesus.

eat of the tree - you will be like God, knowing Good and evil.

You think you will one day evolve into a God. ? pride and self righteousness.

I fail to see even those who believe and expect Jesus to return wont be tricked by satan acting as him, even if they knew it was to happen, since how do you know what satan will do?

You want a legal answer. like a lawyer in a court room.

God offers a free gift. a pardon for all sins. But pride of your own experience of life is making you turn it down.
You'll hang on to your sins like John Wayne. Sucking it up... i'm okay.

God cannot allow sin to exist. It's a free choice to pick sin. Your still asking to hang on to it. Not surrendering it. You blame God for mankind's choices. Should god be looking over your shoulder and if you try to do something evil stop you? That makes you a puppet.

Evil exists and God is letting us deal with it. It's a lesson.
the whole of the old testament is about men trying to deal with their sins... every time failing. So God gave us the perfect sacrifice, one that cleanses us of all sins. We have the sheepskin of Jacob draped over our shoulders and can now go into the tent to ask for the father's blessing. God does not see us - only Jesus. Jesus is our covering.
no more prophets. it is finished. the seed is planted and the crop is ready.

If you read about Jacob and Esau, on the surface you'd miss this? the bible is metaphor and subtext, not about slaughters and murders,it's got hidden messages. All descriptions that lead to one solution. the blood on the cross. the tree of life is the cross.

Sounds to me that your faith is in science. You'll argue God is bad, Blaspheming the spirit of the Lord. You see man as the injured party. It's self righteousness all the way.

God has every right to deal with us how he wishes, he made us. He made Satan and he'll deal with him as he wishes. He'll roll up creation and make a new heaven and a new earth.
The pot telling the potter what he is? That's just arrogant.
You say he is a manipulator by stepping aside? you say he is controlling if he steps in?
It's clear that you made your choice long ago. You'll voluntarily jump into a pit. When there are a 100 ways to avoid it.

The year is 5777 on the jewish calendar the year of completion of grace. the covenant will end and the lord's return is sure to follow. you had the warning shoved in your face and choose to call God the sinner. Smart move.

If a marker were placed that was irrefutable then there would be a choice

Its almost a testimony of insanity to accept some of the unverified notions within the bible, thats what i struggle with zorro, since we have to live within the boundaries of what we witness and experience, not on what we are told has or hasnt happened.

We agree on a number of areas but disagree on others, Im trying to bridge the gap with logic but i admire the fact you attempt to do what you believe is right whether i believe it to be correct or not,

You cannot call something 'super dumb' for baseing an evaluation on logic.

For every interpretation there is going to be misinterpretation too.
Countless times Ive heard reference to things as 'its what you want it to mean' so as to appeal to anyone for whatever reason.

For such an honest misinterpretation to cost so much is why i would pity humanity, by your reckoning.