AG, is the Evan Fairbanks footage a fake in your opinion? If so, what are the inconsistencies that led you to this conclusion? Doesn't have to be scientific, just in plain english (angle is wrong, plane is too big/small, something like that). I'll take a look at the evidence and try and calculate you are right or wrong.

Re Raise

Planes, no planes or impossible reflections. Its very hard to come to any possitive outcome, as the videos are open to visual trickery. For me the collapse of WTC 7 and Bin Ladens connections with the CIA are areas of concern.

Pandorica,

I agree completely with your sentiments, worth a go though

And what has made you believe that? Do you believe a plane hit the pentagon? List your reasons and we can look at each one of them in turn.

Just watched that programme on C4 from last week.
The wife of that fella that "stormed" the cockpit on flight 93 was talking about what happened.
She said her husband had "overheard the hijackers talking about crashing the plane into a field"
So,the hijackers who are locked in the cockpit with the crew can be overheard from outside discussing that they intend to crash the plane into a field.
Why would they do that?
Sparky was telling me on here last week that the hijackers decided to crash the plane as a least worst option,as they knew they would soon be overun,by the unarmed passengers.
But the passengers haven't even began to try to take over the plane yet,because our hero has only just overheard the hijackers discussing their plan.
Right:The Hijackers are now deciding that they will crash their plane into a field,rather than their intended target,before anyone has even thought about taking over the plane?
It doesn't really make sense does it?

Mcginty Joined: 11 Sep 10
Replies: 24 13 Sep 10 15:50 
Incorrect?

You, earlier

"Terrorist" passport found in street after buildings collapse

Incorrect.

You, later (via Wiki)

Al-Suqami's passport was found by a passerby, reportedly in the vicinity of Vesey Street,before the towers collapsed.

Correct.

Not that it makes that much practical difference. You know how the debris was sorted, don't you? For example you know how Waleed Iskandar's bank card was found. It's just that those who don't believe the 'official story' don't seem to know what the 'official story' is, or have an remarkable inability to reproduce it accurately.

The mock drlls are very interesting. The confusion with NORAD was because they believed it was a mock drill.

They were not confused nor did they believe it was a mock drill.

. Mock drills and actors on the streets of London on 7/7 also. Very strange stuff.

Peter Power's office-based PowerPoint run though of a simulated terrorist attack for half a dozen managers of Reed Elsevier is not a mock drill.

only two planes took off according to BTS statistics

The BTS seem quite happy that all four flights took off.

http://www.bts.gov/publications/transportation_statistics_annual_report/2001/html/chapter_05_box_calculating_fatalities_110.html

Tell me about flight 93 and the storming of the cockpit.

From the transcript of the cockpit voice recorder:

09:31:57 Ladies and gentlemen: Here the captain, please sit down keep remaining seating. We have a bomb on board. So sit.

09:32:09 Er, uh ... Calling Cleveland center ... You're unreadable. Say again slowly.

09:32:10 Don't move. Shut up.

09:32:13 Come on, come.

09:32:16 Shut up.

09:32:17 Don't move.

09:32:18 Stop.

09:32:34 Sit, sit, sit down.

09:32:39 Sit down.

09:32:41 Unintelligible ... the brother.

09:32:54 Stop.

09:33:09 No more. Sit down.

09:33:10 That's it, that's it, that's it, down, down.

09:33:14 Shut up.

09:33:20 Unintelligible

09:33:20 We just, we didn't get it clear ... Is that United 93 calling?

09:33:30 Jassim.

09:33:34 In the name of Allah, the most merciful, the most compassionate.

09:33:41 Unintelligible.

09:33:43 Finish, no more. No more.

09:33:49 No. No, no, no, no.

09:33:53 No, no, no, no.



09:34:00 Go ahead, lie down. Lie down. Down, down, down.

09:34:06 There is someone ... Huh?

09:34:12 Down, down, down. Sit down. Come on, sit down. No, no, no, no, no. No.

09:34:16 Down, down, down.

09:34:21 Down.

09:34:25 No more.

09:34:26 No more. Down.

09:34:27 Please, please, please ...

09:34:28 Down.

09:34:29 Please, please, don't hurt me ...

09:34:30 Down. No more.

09:34:31 Oh God.

09:34:32 Down, down, down.

09:34:33 Sit down.

09:34:34 Shut up.

09:34:42 No more.

09:34:46 This?

09:34:47 Yes.

09:34:47 Unintelligible.

09:34:57 One moment, one moment.

09:34:59 Unintelligible.

09:35:03 No more.

09:35:06 Down, down, down, down.

09:35:09 No, no, no, no, no, no...

09:35:10 Unintelligible.

09:35:15 Sit down, sit down, sit down.



09:35:17 Down.

09:35:18 What's this?

09:35:19 Sit down. Sit down. You know, sit down.

09:35:24 No, no, no.

09:35:30 Down, down, down, down.

09:35:32 Are you talking to me?

09:35:33 No, no, no. Unintelligible.

09:35:35 Down in the airport.

09:35:39 Down, down.

09:35:40 I don't want to die.

09:35:41 No, no. Down, down.

09:35:42 I don't want to die. I don't want to die.

09:35:44 No, no. Down, down, down, down, down, down.

09:35:47 No, no, please.

09:35:57 No.

09:37:06 That's it. Go back.

09:37:06 That's it. Sit down.

09:37:36 Everthing is fine. I finished.

09:38:36 Yes.

You see all those 'downs' in there. Could it be possible that someone at the back of the plane might construe any of them as taking the plane down, especially as he has been told about what's happened at the World Trade Center?

Yes. Taking up the CVR from where I left off in the last post.

09:39:11 Ah. Here's the captain. I would like to tell you all to remain seated. We have a bomb aboard, and we are going back to the airport, and we have our demands. So, please remain quiet.

09:39:21 Okay. That's 93 calling?

09:39:24 One moment.

09:39:34 United 93. I understand you have a bomb on board. Go ahead.

09:39:42 And center exec jet nine fifty-six. That was the transmission.

09:39:47 Okay. Ah. Who called Cleveland?



09:39:52 Executive jet nine fifty-six, did you understand that transmission?

09:39:56 Affirmative. He said that there was a bomb on board.

09:39:58 That was all you got out of it also?

09:40:01 Affirmative.

09:40:03 Roger.

09:40:03 United 93. Go ahead.

09:40:14 United 93. Go ahead.

09:40:17 Ahhh.

09:40:52 This green knob?

09:40:54 Yes, that's the one.

09:41:05 United 93, do you hear the Cleveland center?

09:41:14 One moment. One moment.

09:41:15 Unintelligible.

09:41:56 Oh man.

09:44:18 This does not work now.

09:45:13 Turn it off.

09:45:16 ... Seven thousand ...

09:45:19 How about we let them in? We let the guys in now.

09:45:23 Okay.

09:45:24 Should we let the guys in?

09:45:25 Inform them, and tell him to talk to the pilot. Bring the pilot back.

09:45:57 In the name of Allah. In the name of Allah. I bear witness that there is no other God, but Allah.

09:47:31 Unintelligible.

09:47:40 Allah knows.

09:48:15 Unintelligible.

09:48:38 Set course.



09:49:37 Unintelligible.

09:51:17 Unintelligible.

09:51:35 Unintelligible.

09:52:02 Unintelligible.

09:52:31 Unintelligible.

09:53:20 The best thing: The guys will go in, lift up the ... Unintelligible ... and they put the axe into it. So, everyone will be scared.

09:53:27 Yes.

09:53:28 The axe.

09:53:28 Unintelligible.

09:53:29 No, not the.

09:53:35 Let him look through the window. Let him look through the window.

09:53:52 Unintelligible.

09:54:09 Open.

09:54:11 Unintelligible.

09:55:06 You are ... One ...

09:56:15 Unintelligible.

09:57:55 Is there something?

09:57:57 A fight?

09:54:59 Yeah?

09:58:33 Unintelligible. Let's go guys. Allah is greatest. Allah is greatest. Oh guys. Allah is greatest.

09:58:41 Ugh.

09:58:43 Ugh.

09:58:44 Oh Allah. Oh Allah. Oh the most gracious.

09:58:47 Ugh. Ugh.

09:58:52 Stay back.



09:58:55 In the cockpit.

09:58:57 In the cockpit.

09:58:57 They want to get in here. Hold, hold from the inside. Hold from the inside. Hold.

09:59:04 Hold the door.

09:59:09 Stop him.

09:59:11 Sit down.

09:59:13 Sit down.

09:59:15 Sit down.

09:58:16 Unintelligible.

09:59:17 What?

09:59:18 There are some guys. All those guys.

09:59:20 Lets get them.

09:59:25 Sit down.

09:59:29 What?

09:59:30 What.

09:59:31 What?

09:59:36 Unintelligible.

09:59:37 What?

09:59:39 Unintelligible.

09:59:41 Unintelligible.

09:59:42 Trust in Allah, and in him.

09:59:45 Sit down.

09:59:47 Unintelligible.

09:59:53 Ahh.

09:59:55 Unintelligible.

09:59:58 Ahh.



10:00:06 There is nothing.

10:00:07 Is that it? Shall we finish it off?

10:00:08 No. Not yet.

10:00:09 When they all come, we finish it off.

10:00:11 There is nothing.

10:00:13 Unintelligible.

10:00:14 Ahh.

10:00:15 I'm injured.

10:00:16 Unintelligible.

10:00:21 Ahh.

10:00:22 Oh Allah. Oh Allah. Oh Gracious.

10:00:25 In the cockpit. If we don't, we'll die.

10:00:29 Up, down. Up, down, in the cockpit.

10:00:33 The cockpit.

10:00:37 Up, down. Saeed, up, down.

10:00:42 Roll it.

10:00:55 Unintelligible.

10:00:59 Allah is the Greatest. Allah is the Greatest.

10:01:01 Unintelligible.

10:01:08 Is that it? I mean, shall we pull it down?

10:01:09 Yes, put it in it, and pull it down.

10:01:10 Unintelligible.

10:01:11 Saeed.

10:01:12 ... engine ...

10:01:13 Unintelligible.

10:01:16 Cut off the oxygen.



10:01:18 Cut off the oxygen. Cut off the oxygen. Cut off the oxygen.

10:01:34 Unintelligible.

10:01:37 Unintelligible.

10:01:41 Up, down. Up, down.

10:01:41 What?

10:01:42 Up, down.

10:01:42 Ahh.

10:01:53 Ahh.

10:01:54 Unintelligible.

10:01:55 Ahh.

10:01:59 Shut them off.

10:02:03 Shut them off.

10:02:14 Go.

10:02:14 Go.

10:02:15 Move.

10:02:16 Move.

10:02:17 Turn it up.

10:02:18 Down, down.

10:02:23 Pull it down. Pull it down.

10:02:25 Down. Push, push, push, push, push.

10:02:33 Hey. Hey. Give it to me. Give it to me.

10:02:35 Give it to me. Give it to me. Give it to me.

10:02:37 Give it to me. Give it to me. Give it to me.

10:02:40 Unintelligible.

10:03:02 Allah is the greatest.

10:03:03 Allah is the greatest.



10:03:04 Allah is the greatest.

10:03:06 Allah is the greatest.

10:03;06 Allah is the greatest.

10:03:07 No.

10:03:09 Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest.

10:03:09 Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest.

Masher, apologies if you have covered this aleady. I was just wondering if the hijackers conversed in English or have the above alleged conversations been translated (and by whom)?

Is this the recordings from the crash or the movie or both ?

Regarding your previous post Masher:


And what those scientists came up with was the fire did it. Yet there is still no outcry from the world engineering community that this cannot be true. Rather, leading firms like Arup know fire induced collapse is all too true.

In reply: Arup does not have accurate details regarding the core columns of the TOWERS. NIST and  FEMA have deliberately been misleading regarding the size of the core structures. The Arup models are only created from the the given information. Therefore Arup use a variety of techniques which do not show the true strength of the core structures.

FEMA's building description leaves 32,000 tons of steel unaccounted for in each tower, given that the towers were known to each use 96,000 tons of steel.

i dont mean to be lazy but couldnt be bothered to read the whole thread... has anyone questioned the collapse of building 7 which was ommitted from the official commission report?  It doesnt strike me as surprising that all the evidence and papers regarding the collapse of enron and worldcom were destroyed in the collapse along with any other investigations the securities and exchange commission were conducting as they were based in the building :(

how would Israel cover it up

only people within the federal agencies could cover it up

therefore there is only one obviously guilty group

technophobes in a cave couldnt cover it up either

According to david ray griffin:

Late in the day on 9/11, CNN put out a story that began: “Barbara Olson, a conservative commentator and attorney, alerted her husband, Solicitor General Ted Olson, that the plane she was on was being hijacked Tuesday morning, Ted Olson told CNN.” According to this story, Olson reported that his wife had “called him twice on a cell phone from American Airlines Flight 77,” saying that “all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers. The only weapons she mentioned were knives and cardboard cutters.”2

      Ted Olson’s report was very important. It provided the only evidence that American 77, which was said to have struck the Pentagon, had still been aloft after it had disappeared from FAA radar around 9:00 AM (there had been reports, after this disappearance, that an airliner had crashed on the Ohio-Kentucky border). Also, Barbara Olson had been a very well-known commentator on CNN. The report that she died in a plane that had been hijacked by Arab Muslims was an important factor in getting the nation’s support for the Bush administration’s “war on terror.” Ted Olson’s report was important in still another way, being the sole source of the widely accepted idea that the hijackers had box cutters.3

      However, although Ted Olson’s report of phone calls from his wife has been a central pillar of the official account of 9/11, this report has been completely undermined.

Olson’s Self-Contradictions

Olson began this process of undermining by means of self-contradictions. He first told CNN, as we have seen, that his wife had “called him twice on a cell phone.” But he contradicted this claim on September 14, telling Hannity and Colmes that she had reached him by calling the Department of Justice collect. Therefore, she must have been using the “airplane phone,” he surmised, because “she somehow didn’t have access to her credit cards.”4 However, this version of Olson’s story, besides contradicting his first version, was even self-contradictory, because a credit card is needed to activate a passenger-seat phone.

      Later that same day, moreover, Olson told Larry King Live that the second call from his wife suddenly went dead because “the signals from cell phones coming from airplanes don’t work that well.”5 After that return to his first version, he finally settled on the second version, saying that his wife had called collect and hence must have used “the phone in the passengers’ seats” because she did not have her purse.6

      By finally settling on this story, Olson avoided a technological pitfall. Given the cell phone system employed in 2001, high-altitude cell phone calls from airliners were impossible, or at least virtually so (Olson’s statement that “the signals from cell phones coming from airplanes don’t work that well” was a considerable understatement). The technology to enable cell phone calls from high-altitude airline flights was not created until 2004.7

      However, Olson’s second story, besides being self-contradictory, was contradicted by American Airlines.

American Airlines Contradicts Olson’s Second Version

A 9/11 researcher, knowing that AA Flight 77 was a Boeing 757, noticed that AA’s website indicated that its 757s do not have passenger-seat phones. After he wrote to ask if that had been the case on September 11, 2001, an AA customer service representative replied: “That is correct; we do not have phones on our Boeing 757. The passengers on flight 77 used their own personal cellular phones to make out calls during the terrorist attack.”8

      In response to this revelation, defenders of the official story might reply that Ted Olson was evidently right the first time: she had used her cell phone. However, besides the fact that this scenario is rendered unlikely by the cell phone technology employed in 2001, it has also been contradicted by the FBI.

Olson’s Story Contradicted by the FBI

The most serious official contradiction of Ted Olson’s story came in 2006 at the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called 20th hijacker. The evidence presented to this trial by the FBI included a report on phone calls from all four 9/11 flights. In its report on American Flight 77, the FBI report attributed only one call to Barbara Olson and it was an “unconnected call,” which (of course) lasted “0 seconds.”9 According to the FBI, therefore, Ted Olson did not receive a single call from his wife using either a cell phone or an onboard phone.

      Back on 9/11, the FBI itself had interviewed Olson. A report of that interview indicates that Olson told the FBI agents that his wife had called him twice from Flight 77.10 And yet the FBI’s report on calls from Flight 77, presented in 2006, indicated that no such calls occurred.

      This was an amazing development: The FBI is part of the Department of Justice, and yet its report undermined the well-publicized claim of the DOJ’s former solicitor general that he had received two calls from his wife on 9/11.

For years, America’s military has been divided, competent military professionals and patriots on one side and Christian Zionists, loyal to Israel and addicted to a propaganda “dreamworld” on the other.  Americans sat, on 9/11, with their military “asleep at the switch,” their president in a daze and Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, perhaps out of confusion, we may never know, talking about airliners being shot down and the Pentagon being attacked by missiles.  Yes, he said these things, things he couldn’t “unsay” but things the press showed once and quickly buried.  Something terribly wrong happened, something years in planning, but not planned in a cave in Afghanistan.  Everywhere investigators look, one thing pops up, Israel.  The moment that door is opened, it is slammed shut, often with threats, often with more than threats.

Angel Gabriel Joined: 09 May 05
Replies: 518 30 Aug 10 18:17   


Its quite disturbing Gene that people on here would much rather believe the U.S Governments official line, than even contemplate the evidence of independent experts.

The independent experts corroborate the official line. for example independent experts have verified that it is Bin Laden in the videos.

The US Government would not need to have thousands of insiders to `keep quiet` if 9/11 was an inside job.


Rubbish.How could it be an inside job. All the eyewitnesses would have to be lying for a start.

Top levels of security allow people to do their job but without the knowledge of any consequencies. Israeli intellegence agents could easily have planned these events without the knowledge of people `opening doors`for them.


That's right blame the Jews. Even though there is no evidence of their involvement.Lack of evidence never stopped people like you blaming the Jews.

The American Government is a corrupt organisation who supports racist and terrorist policies against muslim nations. It allows thousands of its own young soldiers to lose their lives in third world countries. The people who rule this corrupt organisation are war mongering gangsters.



So you say. No denying that the US government hasn't got a clue what it's doing some times when it comes to it's foreign policy, but I don't agree with what you have said.


How many wars have started since the CIA was created in 1947 with Nazi intelligence and look at how the Muslim race been persecuted since the state of Israel was formed in 1948.

Of course you ignore all the evil things the Arabs have done to the Jews. This is typical of your bigoted view point.


A[b]merica claims to be `anti terrorists` yet they support the terrorist polices of Israel against Palestine. Yet accuse Iran of being a terrorist threat, even though Iran has not started a war in over 200 years. Come on people wake up.
[/b]



Iran has not been an Islamic republic before. DKF of fish now.Of course you ignore what the Palestinians have done to Isreal. You are so prejudiced.

For years, America’s military has been divided, competent military professionals and patriots on one side and Christian Zionists, loyal to Israel and addicted to a propaganda “dreamworld” on the other.  Americans sat, on 9/11, with their military “asleep at the switch,” their president in a daze and Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, perhaps out of confusion, we may never know, talking about airliners being shot down and the Pentagon being attacked by missiles.  Yes, he said these things, things he couldn’t “unsay” but things the press showed once and quickly buried.  Something terribly wrong happened, something years in planning, but not planned in a cave in Afghanistan.  Everywhere investigators look, one thing pops up, Israel.  The moment that door is opened, it is slammed shut, often with threats, often with more than threats.

There are already too many people living on Planet Earth, according to one of most influential science advisors in the US government.
Nina Fedoroff told the BBC One Planet programme that humans had exceeded the Earth's "limits of sustainability".
Dr Fedoroff has been the science and technology advisor to the US secretary of state since 2007, initially working with Condoleezza Rice.

mr winkle Joined: 01 Aug 05
Replies: 9581 30 Aug 10 22:25   


This giant thread is slowing down the forum

I shall soon campaign to have it pulled.



You would have thought that the NWO would have had it pulled by now.guess the global elite don't control betfair.They can pull off the greatest magic trick live on tv in front of billions of people , but they can't get this thread pulled.lol.and you think they would want to because Clocky,Gene and AG giving all their secrets away as well.this just goes to prove that we live in more free society(thank God) than the conspiricists would have us believe.