Angel Gabriel Joined: 09 May 05
Replies: 519 31 Aug 10 15:03   


Naydam it was european anti semitic christians, who held facist beliefs who where the enemy of the Jewish race, not the Palestinian people. You obviously feel that injustice is the way of the world so everybody should just accept it.
Karma is a wonderful thing Naydam



The Palestinians to some extent have got what they deserved. They could have shared the land.As Israel wanted to. They choose to go war.They lost and lost land. That is justice.

As we predicted `freedom of speach` will soon be a thing of the past. Anyone who challenges the Governments authority,judgement or integrity will be seen as anti government `extremists`. This will lead to an uprising on the streets and enforce a larger police state. Where the sheeples who never challenge the governments activity live as `grateful slaves`..


Unfortunately for you AG you will always have the freedom to make a fool of yourself on the internet. We probably have more freedom now than before ,now we have the internet.

test

*yet we see NO documentation on this subject.

I find it amusing that `TRUTHERS` are called names on mainstream media especially in America....LOONS!! DELUSIONAL!! NUTS!! PIN HEADS!!............Surely there should be live debates on the subject. If there is nothing to hide then why is there no mature debates.

Im sure the wiewing figuers would be huge. I see no reason why the mainstream media would not want to cover this subject. Unless of course.................................[:x]

Angel Gabriel
I find it amusing that `TRUTHERS` are called names on mainstream media especially in America....LOONS!! DELUSIONAL!! NUTS!! PIN HEADS!!............Surely there should be live debates on the subject. If there is nothing to hide then why is there no mature debates.

Who will represent the "Truthers"?
As I said earlier there is no single alternative "truth" to the oficial version - there are, quite literally, millions. Take any single one of those full versions, including yours if you have one, and it's easily destroyed by looking at the maths, (Bayes Theorum/ Probability Theory), at the evidence, be it forensic or visual, at eyewitness statements, at experimential data, at computer simulation, at expert testimony, at transcripts and recordings of phone conversations made that day, and actually in many cases by just using a bit of common sense.
Let's say the "Truthers" elect Griffin as their main man. That would be a reasonable choice wouldn't it? Griffin goes into the studio and the discussion centres around the Pentagon and events there on 11th September. To support his idea that a large jet did not crash into the Pentagon, Griffin quotes an eyewitness, as per his book "The New Pearl Harbour":
"It was like a cruise missile with wings."
Damning evidence of something untoward one might think.
Unfortunately, said eyewitness, one Mike Walter, is in the audience and he gives his full quote to the nation:
"I looked out my window and I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. And I thought, 'This doesn't add up, it's really low. I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings. It went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon"

Or maybe Griffin goes with the quote from Danielle O'Brien, air-controller at Dulles, who handled the take off of Flight 77:
"We all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane."
Sadly, O'Brien is in the audience too. She adds the final bit of that quote that Griffin left out:
"You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe."
"So Danielle, says the American version of Jeremy Kyles, "You think it was a military craft that flew into the Pentagon?"
"No," says Danielle, "It was my Flight 77 that I picked up on radar again after I'd lost it for 34 minutes. I have never expressed any doubts it was my flight that flew into the Pentagon."

Now there's just a sample minute of any debate you care to organise. They will all go the same way. There is no alternative "truth". It's not being smart to think there is really. What you're actually doing is propagating a myth for which there is no evidence of existence. I understand the mental processes that people go through to arrive at that position but I do think it's important to try to take the emotional and intellectual committment you've made to that falsehood, set it aside and actually look at what ALL the evidence is telling you. Just a suggestion - one I doubt you will take but you could try this book as an interesting read if nothing else:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mistakes-Were-Made-but-Not/dp/1905177216/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1284816702&sr=8-1

Very closely connected to the whole 9/11 "Truth Movement" are the events surrounding regression hypnosis and false memory syndrome in alleged child abuse cases in the US in the early 90s. I know they sound unconnected but in the latter there was a group of intelligent people who took a slanted view of reality, and in so doing not only painted themselves into a corner both professionally and emotionally but did untold damage to hundreds of innocent people. So painted in where they however, that even when everyone else could see the truth, they refused to buy into it. That's the human mind for you I'm afraid.

Plenty of professional people were fooled by the regressive therapy model too. The point is, there was no substantiating evidence.
That is exactly the position of any single "truther" version of events.
Cartoon planes - eyewitness statements of thousands rebuke. Evidence of cartoon - nil.
Missiles were used at the Pentagon - again eyewitness statements rebuke. Evidence of missile - nil.
Towers were blown up - calls made from the tower by Frank Demartini, construction manager, among others rebuke. Eyewitness statements to planting of tons of explosive - nil.
Towers were blown up - no evidence of explosives seen in the hundreds and hundreds of photos and films taken around the towers that day. Forensic/photographic evidence - nil.
Can't make a call from a jet in flight - family members of victims, with no axe to grind, rebuke.
There were no hijackers - cctv, passengers on plane, and cockpit recordings rebuke.

But go on Angel I'm interested. Take me from lets say 8am that day and explain your version in the way the official 9/11 report did. Feel free to abbreviate but please do tell me your evidence for when you stray from the official line.

And by evidence I don't mean a list of "unexplained" things, which over the course of any single day in history would amount to billions of, apparently, weird and wonderful events.
As we've already discussed the statement:
"If there was a conspiracy, the US Governmant would want the "hijackers" identified asap. Therefore they would plant a passport near the scene."

is most definitely not the same as

"A hijacker's passport was found therefore there was a conspiracy."

That isn't evidence. That's fallacy.

Are we all done now?

Yep - Gene has convinced me with that hard evidence of establishment involvement in 9/11.

1. It's so unlike the military to have exercises. The jets strafing my pool when on holiday in the South of France a few weeks ago were a sure sign that the Eiffel Tower is coming down by Xmas.

2. That's a weaker argument tbh. A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10. Similarly,much of the seemingly suspicious trading in American on September 10 was traced to a specific U.S.-based options trading newsletter, faxed to its subscribers on Sunday, September 9, which recommended these trades.These examples typify the evidence examined by the investigation.The SEC and the FBI, aided by other agencies and the securities industry, devoted enormous resources to investigating this issue, including securing the cooperation of many foreign governments.These investigators have found that the apparently suspicious consistently proved innocuous.

3. But the bus that went past my house on Wednesday morning did have fewer passengers than it had on Tuesday. I was of course, immediately suspicious.

4. Bearing in mind it looked like being a gorgeous day it does seem strange that at 9am the towers hadn't had the same number of visitors that they had had all the previous day.

Gene has nailed it. It's the equivalent of Bush's fingerprints being on that passport thingy. I can't wait to see that TV programme now. Gene is going to chew up Thomas Kean and spit him out.

Or less so.

I can only repeat myself so much. I'll have one more go and after that leave you to this fantasy.

1. Evidence - not circumstance - evidence?
Answer - there cameth none. Not a shred. None.

2. The "truther" alternative view of the day - from 8am on.  Give your evidence, forensic, filmed, witness statements - whatever, when you drift from the official view.

3. And for the umpteenth time:

"If the windscreen of my car was attacked by a maniac with a meat cleaver it might crack"

is not the frickin' same as,

"I have a cracked windscreen. It must have been attacked by a maniac with a meat cleaver."

It is this latter breakdown in logic, of which both your and Hackman's arguments are quintessential examples, that I think frustrate many of us the most. Why? Because this is a gaming site. The one thing it's reasonable to expect posters to have is some insight into conditional probability. There is none of that insight evident in your posts, and certainly not in that last one by Gene.

Corky
I congratulate the conspiracy boys on their indefatigability. They've seen off the sane people with sheer stamina.

Nods.

They'd whack the fck out of it.
Bye.

DonWarro Joined: 15 Jan 06
Replies: 2758 02 Sep 10 00:02   


i havent read this thread, and this is old news, but for those of you who havent seen any of it a new article came out today with a good summary of a few bits that get swept over

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/158/835/Mossad_Did_911,Israeli_spy-ring_in_the_US_involving_over_200_Israeli_spies,Best_Evidence_youll_Ever_See.html

call me when ur ready to discuss things a little further down the rabbit hole.



Wouldn't surprise me if they knew. Could be that Churchill knew about Pearl harbor as well. No way of knowing for sure.

Mc Moonbeam Joined: 22 Sep 05
Replies: 2829 02 Sep 10 00:27   


if you believe this shook the financial world .. you're very much on the wrong track !


Major economic effects arose from the September 11 attacks, with initial shock causing global stock markets to drop sharply. The attacks themselves caused approximately $40 billion in insurance losses, making it one of the largest insured events ever.[1]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_effects_arising_from_the_September_11_attacks

obama's ineligibility will become official at some point in the near future btw. i jumped the gun initially saying they would not let him take office but since learned the reasons why it was being allowed. he is in to accomplish certain things and then be scapegoated for the robbery of billions in tax money via the stimulus sham and all his other legislation that is littered with junk pet project spending, waste and deals for his union cronies whom he is trying to use to increase his voting base via immigration (since americans hate his policies).  he is then to be removed and it will be hailed a miracle that the country managed to survive and a hero crowned having been selected by god in the american public's eye. this fella will return them to constitutional rule.

lol

DonWarro Joined: 15 Jan 06
Replies: 2758 02 Sep 10 00:48   


naydam - the symbolism and subliminals achieved with the attack and consequential collapse were beyond priceless to those in control.  their entire agenda to permanently enslave our minds into this limited state of awareness and consciousness that we are currently experiencign hinges upon it.  the subliminals are everything because that's all reality is, an idea.  the subliminals are the suggestion required for us to create the future accordingly :)

and you need to bear in mind that money-wise, their wealth is essentially bottomless, since the artificial bankruptcy based economy we use is their creation and as they own it they cream it accordingly



This is all very interesting, but the only problem is you don't have a shred of evidence to back it up.

no moves Joined: 24 Feb 04
Replies: 721 02 Sep 10 02:23   


Yes it was a conspiracy, it was the construction industry of America who did it, they reasoned, in the event we invaded the country of Afghanistan we would have access to a limitless amount of sand.




LOL.

Sunset, are you D1ck Cheney by any chance?

"ye that's right you got me."

your ffs.