At this stage in proceedings I very much doubt any protaganist in this debate will change their minds. So I suppose largely this is a sterile debate and I'm loathe to get into arguments about the minutiae of evidence.

However, while Newton's Laws of Motion fray badly around the edges as an object approaches light speed, and very possibly, and mysteriously, as an object drifts to the outer reaches of the solar system I think we can assume that neither of these circumstances apply to September 11th. Put simply, if you imagine a rather robust cat sat on a cross in the centre of a roof of a tower as it fell, that cat does not reach, so called, 'free fall'. (It must be said at this point that the the outer structures of the tower that break away from the main body and are therefore subject only to gravity and air resistance will fall with an acceleration of a little under 9.8m/sec2 - the precise figure dependent largely on the surface area of the falling piece. While the moggie falls quickly it doesn't reach this figure. In fact the whole speed debate is rather a red herring because even if there was a controlled demolition our Pus still wouldn't 'free-fall'.


paradox and equilibrium
"Warping of sense and logic" Please explain that further, I'm interested

I did in my earlier post. Here's another simple one:

"My car doesn't start when it has its engine removed" does not mean the same as, "My car won't start. It must have had its engine removed."

However in a conspiracy theory about said motor-car, that's precisely the kind of "evidence" that would be offered up. It's true of all 'conspiracy theories', be it JFK, Lunar Landings, Diana - whichever you choose to hang your hat on.


As for Gage, though I'm not privy to his bank account, I'm going to make my own leap to a conclusion here.  I think he was probably paid on his European tour in 2008 and other parts of the world in 2009 - as opposed to it being a purely altruistic act. If he wasn't paid and hasn't benefitted financially from the events of 2001 I apologise to him unreservedly. At that point he becomes simply deluded, as  opposed to being a profiteering b'stard.
Griffin - simply indefensible, the manner in which he distorts the evidence of eye-witnessesis is a total disgrace. And why even supporters of the whole conspiracy angle, are not deeply ashamed of him is beyond me.

Pandorica your car not starting, is a common problem with cars. hth

Mcginty     12 Sep 10 11:29 
"Terrorist" passport found in street after buildings collapse, and two black boxes built to survive any crash imaginable are supposedly not found. Some people are smelling something other than the coffee!

smells like...

lying

The controversy over the death of Government scientist Dr David Kelly has deepened after ambulance chiefs admitted that a vital medical record relating to the case has vanished.
The South Central Ambulance NHS Trust has lost the Patient Report Form (PRF) completed by paramedic Vanessa Hunt, who attended the scene of the former weapons inspector’s death in 2003.

No not lying just stating the facts. The passport of Satam Al Suqami was recovered from the debris and the black boxes were destroyed.

Masher uniquely enough no steel framed Skyscrapers had collapsed due to fires until 9/11,



CHIEF: OK, so we're blowing up these buildings and blaming the collapse on fire.

DEPUTY: But buildings don't collapse due to fire. The entire world engineering community will smell a rat.

CHIEF: Feck it, let's just do it anyway.

Is that how it went?

and for them buidings to suffer asymmetrical collapses, contradicts all building codes of weight distribution following the path of least resistance.

Path of least resistance is just a load of bunkum. If the the energy of the falling mass is sufficient, it will destroy whatever is below it.

[i]You are saying that  demolition companies do not use nano thermite to demolish buildings.I agree with you on this
Yet the military are not involved in civil demolitions but are involved with nano thermite technology.

So what?

Integrating emerging powers will be no picnic either. "Being a 21st -century power means having to accept a share of the burden of solving common problems, and of abiding by a set of rules of the road," the secretary declared. But how should the United States respond if rising powers decline to accept such global responsibilities, in return for a seat at the high table, given their diverse interests, capabilities, and world views? And is the United States prepared to recognize emerging players as rule-makers, not just rule-takers?
Clinton's approach to global institutions is wisely pragmatic. She understands that the United Nations remains indispensable but is not the only game in town. Effective multilateral cooperation requires relying on—and ensuring the complementarity between—"multiple venues," ranging from formal, treaty-based bodies and informal, mini-lateral groupings like the G20 and the Major Economies Forum. More disappointing was Clinton's failure to advance the ball on the critical question of Security Council enlargement—the big enchilada of global governance reform, and a critical step in integrating rising powers.
Finally, the secretary declared that this new world order must be underpinned by an "architecture of values," one that can not only "counter repression and resist pressure on human rights," but also "extend those fundamental freedoms over time to places where they have been too long denied." What she did not provide was any guidance on how the administration—which has been criticized by human rights activists for realpolitik in its relations with Russia, China, and Egypt (among others)—plans to balance human rights and broader strategic concerns.

On the eve of Sept. 11, Fox News has learned the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency has attempted to block a book about the tipping point in Afghanistan and a controversial pre-9/11 data mining project called "Able Danger."

In a letter obtained by Fox News, the DIA says national security could be breached if "Operation Dark Heart" is published in its current form. The agency also attempted to block key portions of the book that claim "Able Danger" successfully identified hijacker Mohammed Atta as a threat to the United States before the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

"extreme right wing sites that ally themselves with the more extraordinary conspiracy theories."

are you talking about fox news, m'dear?

CHIEF: OK, so we're blowing up these buildings and blaming the collapse on fire.

DEPUTY: But buildings don't collapse due to fire. The entire world engineering community will smell a rat.

CHIEF: Listen, we will say that the impact of the aircraft and the aviation fuel caused the collapse. We will tell NIST not to mention the Nano stuff.

DEPUTY: Erm but WTC 7 will not be hit by any aircraft, what should we say about this one?

CHIEF: Blame the office fires and any damage caused by debris. We will say we stored deisel in the building. Everyone will be on our side by then anyway, we will have our scientists come up with something.

anyone see the 9/11 programme on national geo channel tonight ?

The mock drlls are very interesting. The confusion with NORAD was because they believed it was a mock drill. A mock drillkill given the green light to go REAL. Mock drills and actors on the streets of London on 7/7 also. Very strange stuff.

Incorrect?
Al-Suqami's passport was found by a passerby, reportedly in the vicinity of Vesey Street,before the towers collapsed. (This was mistakenly reported by many news outlets to be Mohamed Atta's passport.) A columnist for the British newspaper The Guardian expressed incredulity about the authenticity of this report,questioning whether a paper passport could survive the inferno unsinged when the plane's black boxes  were never found. According to testimony before the 9/11 Commission by lead counsel Susan Ginsburg, his passport had been "manipulated in a fraudulent manner in ways that have been associated with al Qaeda." Passports belonging to Ziad Jarrah and Saeed al Ghamdi were found at the crash site of United Airlines flight #93 as well as an airphone.

dont really get the passport issue - surely on impact there was an explosion which could have blown personal belongings (bags etc) away from the crash scene and stopping them from burning
the black box i assume would be attatched to the plane and remain there to fry in the inferno

"u guys need to watch the South Park episode that covers this and let the truth in
"

Really? Really?

Britons must radically change the way they live and work to adapt to being "stuck with unavoidable climate change" the Government will caution this week, as it unveils a dramatic vision of how society will be altered by floods, droughts and rising temperatures.

http://l911t.com/

Lawyers for 9/11 Truth

THIS IS PAGE 42 [smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy]

According to Douglas Adams the answer MUST be on this page.

Mind you, on the old forum we'd be on page 33.

WELL, WAS IT A CONSPIRACY OR NOT ?

If the people are traumatised enough, they will believe anything. Yes 9/11 was ACTed out. Unfortunately not a masterclass, but they know they can divide and conquer the the Truth movement and just stonewall the rest.

Thats unlawful you bandit!