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Snooker discussion: Putting topspin on a cueball
Snooker discussion: Putting topspin on a cueball
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Replies: 723
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Perhaps they could get Steve Davis to try out the blue ball experiment?
Just jog my memory again on this one please PM. |
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Start with the cueball on the brown spot and the blue on its own spot. These are the only two balls on the table.
First shot: Send the white into the blue at an (almost) full on collision, sending the colour up over the pink and black spots and back to baulk, coming to rest within two inches of the baulk cushion. If the blue bounces back into the white, start again. This first shot should be played plain ball. Note where the white finishes. Second shot: Replace the balls and try again using as much topspin as you can muster. You can even move it closer to the blue if you like. Keep trying until the blue finishes in the same place as before. This is your proof that you have not inadvertantly struck the white harder. Note where the white finishes. It will be in the same place as the first plainly struck shot. This is proof positive that the cueball cannot and will not 'overspin' as most players and coaches believe in error. |
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Why is it necessary to hit both balls into a cushion. I would assume this would negate any topspin as the effects would be reversed. Just try it without hitting a cushion, no?
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Steve Davis is a great student of all aspects of the game. I'd be quite surprised if he was unaware of the topspin fallacy.
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Surely the question is if the blue finishes in the same place as before this might mean that the white has been struck with less force with than before but the topspin compensates
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you seem to assume that the white can not be struck harder..but it may have been struck softer
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CL.
Yes, that is indeed true, sir. Allowing for a harder strike, however, helps to illustrate the principle rather more clearly I feel. |
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i am sorry but your example does not allow for a softer strike with the topspin compensating
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LFC.
You have lost me slightly, sir. Ensuring the blue finishes in the same place does proves it has been struck with equal force. The alleged topspin (overspin) affects the cueball not the blue (except by a miniscule amount). |
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LFC.
You have lost me slightly, sir. Ensuring the blue finishes in the same place does prove it has been struck with equal force. The alleged topspin (overspin) affects the cueball not the blue (except by a miniscule amount). |
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yes that is correct,but the force when hitting the cueball with topspin is less to achieve the same place for the blue ball
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LFC.
I am afraid that is incorrect, sir. |
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Sir i am afraid with all respect i have pointed out a flaw in your methodology
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LFC.
It's a new one, I'll give you that, sir!  As long as the cueball is rolling, which it will be in this example, if the blue ball ends up in the same place then you can rest assured that it has been struck (by the white) with equal force on both occasions. |
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yes i quite agree,but that is not the question. Your example has no way of proving that the cue ball has not been struck softer with topspin then striking the blue with equal force sending the blue to the same spot
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The resting position of the blue ball proves it. It is conclusive, and irrefutable, proof.
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LFC.
Just to be clear, sir, and I mean no disrespect here whatsoever, but are you pulling my leg? |
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no sir that only proves that the white ball strikes the blue with the same force..not that the cue has struck the white ball with the same force
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please let me be clear i am not saying you are wrong..but i feel your example has a flaw.
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This is turning into a fast show sketch!
Sir, would one mind inserting your theory into your posterior? |
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LFC.
The white ball striking the blue with consistant force is the salient point that matters here, sir. It is a test to prove that overspin (topspin) does not and cannot occur when actioned with a cuetip. |
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I see your point now, sir.
Theoretically, one could lunge at the cueball with all the force a body could muster, skimming the top of the cueball at such a slight angle that it rolled forward at the same speed as an earlier, fuller hit. This possibility, however, has no bearing whatsoever on our test. |
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i am sorry but the white ball striking the blue with equal force is not the salient point. As you have been at pains to ensure that the white is not hit harder..but my point is that it is hit softer to achieve the same result on the blue when hit with topspin. Your method does not take this into account
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You have misread my post, sir.
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Then why design an experiment which by it's nature would disguise such topspin? Any ball moving with topspin will rebound of an object less far than one than a ball without.
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sir i am not necessarily saying you are wrong, just that your example is flawed
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CL.
I don't really understand your post, sir. |
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LFC.
But the cueball is not hit softer, sir. |
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ok this is the salient point,you have set up an experiment to ensure that the cue ball is not hit harder,but there is no safeguard that it has not been hit softer when using topspin.Therefore it is possible that in your ex.with the blue ball finishing in the same place the cue ball may have been hit softer and the topspin compensates
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and if the cue ball is hit with equal force the topspin means that the blue ball goes further
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But the topspin, as you call it, does not compensate for anything. That is where I am saying you are wrong in your assumptions, sir.
The blue ball finishing in the same place is proof positive of consistant force. |
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LFC -Surely the question is if the blue finishes in the same place as before this might mean that the white has been struck with less force with than before but the topspin compensates
Pokermonster LFC has not grasped the concept that topspin cannot be applied to the cue ball. Of course if both the blue and the white end up in the same place while trying to apply top spin obviously means no such topspin has been applied. Explaining that to Rishi should be a breeze |
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There is no topspin. It is just natural forward roll.
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Does the white not hit the cushion?
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i am not necessarily saying that topspin can or can not be applied..just that this example does not prove either way
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Indeed, AG.
Pool gadget on channel 4 now with Stephen Fry. Right now. |
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LFC - Topspin is impossible. It is a myth. It is merely forward roll.
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I would have assumed that a ball hit by a ball moving with topspin would tend to move LESS far if hit with the same pace?
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CL.
It normally lands very near the top cushion (the one by the black spot) but it depends on the speed of one's table. |