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Snooker discussion: Putting topspin on a cueball

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By:
Angel Gabrial
When: 03 Oct 12 02:06
Pokerman

You should try and explain timing of the shot and science behind it.
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 02:07
666

The thing about so-called topspin, sir, is that most people actually believe that the cueball is also spinning forwards at a faster rate than it is rolling.  And, worse yet, that it spins faster the higher one hits it.  None of this is true, it just rolls.
By:
666_v
When: 03 Oct 12 02:09
I understand how it works - I didn't ever consider how other people perceived it as I was too busy taking their money Cool
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 02:12
666

Believe me, sir, you are in a very small minority if you truly understand how topspin works.  Even the English Pool Association's head coach (plus every snooker coach I've ever met) do not understand it, as evidenced in the video clip below.
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 02:12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0bIkuZO_fc
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 02:13
Almost everything this gentleman expounds is incorrect.
By:
666_v
When: 03 Oct 12 02:16
Spins it faster forward than it's actually moving

Laugh
By:
genelec
When: 03 Oct 12 02:17
Laugh
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 02:20
Indeed, sir!  And I can tell you that nearly every top snooker player also believes that to be the case.  That fact does give one pause, of course, as to the importance of such knowledge.
By:
666_v
When: 03 Oct 12 02:21
So it breaks the laws of physics - not a bad shot if you can pull it off!
By:
666_v
When: 03 Oct 12 02:23
Get enough monkeys doing a top spin shot, somehow capture the power of the "faster than it's actually moving" part of the shot - hey presto, all our energy needs are met Laugh
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 02:23
The only way you can achieve true overspin is by striking the cueball with the palm of one's hand, not a cuetip.
By:
Angel Gabrial
When: 03 Oct 12 02:25
Like in table tennis need to get over the ball to apply top spin.
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 02:25
Physics students at MIT also created a machine which could spin a cueball at ridiculous RPS, the effects were weird and wonderful in equal measure.
By:
Angel Gabrial
When: 03 Oct 12 02:40
PM

You should definitely add this fact to your autobiography.
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 02:45
I already have, sir.  With illustrations no less! Happy
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 02:50
I once tried posting a sample from my book's contents pages, but Betfair's compression software renders it almost unreadable so I gave up on any further attempts.

[img]http://community.cdnbf.net/community.betfair.com/user/pokermonster/pokermonsters_gallery/9541387b8a6be2d3a2b1dbf5616f7fdb.jpg?v=143100[/img]
By:
Angel Gabrial
When: 03 Oct 12 02:52
You know it makes sense.Happy

Do you have a title, because i will keep an eye out.
By:
666_v
When: 03 Oct 12 02:54
You should crop it into smaller parts PM, then it would be easy to read
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 02:54
A working title.  But don't worry, sir, I'll let everyone on the forum know if I ever finish it.
By:
Angel Gabrial
When: 03 Oct 12 02:54
I can just read it. It reads very sophisticated with some cool humour.
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 02:56
I feel anything smaller than a page, 666, would detract from the overall effect.  And I'm a dreadfully picky person about things like that.  It's a terrible curse to bear.
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 02:58
Thank you, AG, that's very kind of you to say so, sir.
By:
Angel Gabrial
When: 03 Oct 12 03:02
Its your creation though, you want it just how you want it.

Good luck PM
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 03:02
Alas, the juice in my battery is about to expire (both metaphorically and literally) so I must bid you gentlemen good morning.

Good night and thank you very much for your company.
By:
666_v
When: 03 Oct 12 03:07
I meant to post the page in two or three shots - I understand where you're coming from though.

Good night to you too
By:
Gnarley
When: 03 Oct 12 03:18
I could't give a flying one regarding spin issues, far too daft for stuff like that, but I very much enjoy the straight dual margins you have created with your writing PK.
First class indeedHappy
By:
Angel Gabrial
When: 03 Oct 12 08:01
You can get the cue ball to roll and not just slide by hitting it at the bottom.

I am sure you know how. ;) And i don`t mean by screwing off a cushion.
By:
blackburn1
When: 03 Oct 12 08:31
Interesting thread, I made centuries at snooker and always thought I had an understanding of cue ball control. The one shot that in my prime I could play but never really understood is the "stun run through", perhaps poker has some thoughts.

The other shot that always puzzled opponents was when the object ball was close to the Cush and was struck hard by the cue ball with topspin, the cue ball follows through and revolves against the Cush as if it's being gripped.

My happiest days were spent years ago in clubs playing winner stays on for a couple of quid
By:
Angel Gabrial
When: 03 Oct 12 08:50
The stun run through.

The point of contact between the cue ball and object ball, that has just enough  momentum to both slide and then create a minimum of roll.

Fancy us both being century makers BlackyGrin. Fancy a frame?
By:
Angel Gabrial
When: 03 Oct 12 09:00
The other shot that always puzzled opponents was when the object ball was close to the Cush and was struck hard by the cue ball with topspin, the cue ball follows through and revolves against the Cush as if it's being gripped.


Pokermonster won`t like this top spin business BlackyMischief.

But again its a momentum change from fast forward roll to hitting the cushion and the momentum of the cue ball transferring into backwards spin keeping it attracted to the cushion.
By:
blackburn1
When: 03 Oct 12 10:06
Yes you've described it well, my pals could never grasp it.

In my late teens early 20s I won loads of comps by my late 20s I was wearing glasses and lost interest as my form deteriorated. I had a game last year, first for a couple of yearsand didn't enjoy it at all, missing simple shots, I think I managed a couple of 30s.

The skill and nuances of snooker are lost on the vast majority, even regular players.
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 12:16
Gnarley.

Sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar.  The percentage of people who would notice such a thing is miniscule, most would just attribute the feat to justification software and think little more of it.  As you so astutely grasped, no electronic manipulation is present in the example I posted above, the lines are simply the same length... exactly the same length.  Consequently, the gaps between words are also all identical, something you will not encounter in any other book.  The naked eye is very adept at picking up on nuances like this; a viewer will realise that the text looks aesthetically pleasing but probably be unsure as to why.

I am endeavouring to write a book comprised of perfect typesetting, something not attempted to my knowledge since Gutenberg compiled his Bible five-hundred years ago.  Unlike the great man, I am striving to complete the task without resorting to glyph-scaling (stretching or compressing individual letters) so it is a rather time-consuming process, but a rewarding one.

Once again, sir, sincere thanks for your interest.
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 12:19
AG.

The only means I can imagine to make the cueball instantly roll instead of slide by hitting it on the bottom would be to place it on a cube of chalk and strike it from below.

If there is another way you have got me, sir!
By:
Angel Gabrial
When: 03 Oct 12 12:20
Same here not played for years. Had 8 frames on a matchplay table about 3 years ago. I struggled to string a 30 break. Mike Hallet was there watching, ive known him for years. He was trying his best to commentate but it me and my mate were hopeless.

In my teens i thought i had a chance but i put too much pressure on myself in front of a crowd. My dad`s best pal was a promoter and i got too meet most of the top players as a kid. Believe it or not Fred Davis was the only one that made me cry.
By:
Angel Gabrial
When: 03 Oct 12 12:26
Pokermonster

That`s a good find but i was not being that clever,  merely talking about the drag shot.

Do you have a mass array of trick shots?
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 12:28
Good afternoon AG.

You and I must be about the same age, sir.  I'm not JV by the way!
By:
Angel Gabrial
When: 03 Oct 12 12:33
Grin dash i thought you was JV

Well i am a few years younger than Mike. There was also Dean Reynolds from that time.

Perhaps you are a few years my senior PM.
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 12:34
A gentleman named Reyes asked me about the drag shot earlier in the thread, AG.  Here was my reply.

The drag shot is often used when a player wishes to strike the ball firmly (possibly to counteract an uneven table) yet wishes the ball to travel relatively slowly. It is executed in much the same manner as a backspin, or draw, stroke. The difference being any backspin will have worn off before cueball meets object ball.

There are three recognisable physical areas to the drag stroke. The cueball has been struck below its centre of mass and therefore begins travelling in the direction of the stroke whilst also spinning backwards.

When this backspin wears off the white begins to slide momentarily (my research with high speed video suggests this phase tends to be roughly one tenth of the distance travelled during the backspinning, but I cannot offer you proof such a ratio is constant at this stage). If the white collides full on with the object ball during this stage it will stop dead.

The third stage of the drag shot is where the white finally regains its grip and begins to roll forward naturally.

The drag shot is particularly useful when you wish to retain as much sidespin as possible over a long distance, as equatorial spin is diminished far slower than backspin. The drag shot has nothing whatsoever to do with dressing up like Prescilla, Queen of the Desert.


And yes, sir, I do have a huge array of trickshots in my repertoire, they are my speciality.
By:
Pokermonster
When: 03 Oct 12 12:36
Unfortunately, I was 43 in July.  Where have the years gone?
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