Is there too many handicaps....maybe, maybe too many races altogether, probably better when 3 days, but its the way it is now and I still enjoy it all. Probably would if it were 5 days!!
But I am an addict my friend.

I never get involved in the handicaps either - too many plots where one has been completely under cooked all year, only to get a miraculous burst of energy on the day where they bolt up with owners and stable staff on at big prices.

Exactly. It's not the winning that bothers me. It's the rider opening the champagne half a mile from home.

I'd have thought an erudite man such as yourself would have immediately gleaned that from my other post miltons. Of course after the event we can say A and B equals C. Before the event I'd imagine most people will want to see the horses running in the biggest races which can set it up for being a race for the ages. Of course given his capitulation in the last 50 yards a horse like Vautour could run out of petrol going to the last in the gold cup. Equally the course itself, the ground, spring, natural progression and superior fitness could see him run them ragged. That's the romance of the sport. I'd imagine few would argue that he was probably the best horse in that race at Kempton. At six. The world is his oyster. Let's not hide him away in a backwater. Show the world. He's the best. Let's show it against the other best stayers.

we also have to be careful about putting horses in races they are not suited to where they show their limitations.
With Vautour, having watched the KG,connections will not want to subject him to a One Man scenario,just to appease the general public,far better if they just do what they think is best for the horse,and put him in the race they genuinely feel is best for him in getting the best performance,and prolonging his career and getting the best career for him.
They have to decide which is the right campaign for him,and right now,in my view that ain't straightforward.
My feeling is Ryanair,as I feel that distance is perfect for him.
Be interesting what his connections decide.

I'll answer that in a different way but with honesty. If the ground comes up soft or worse for Cheltenham then as the owner I'd want him to run in the Champion Chase this season. As a seven year old he then has the scope to go up to the Gold Cup next year with another year under his belt. If the ground is good he'd take his chance in the Gold Cup this season and if he patently failed to stay I wouldn't hang around for two of three seasons banging my head against a brick wall and would campaign him as a champion chaser next season. If neither worked out I'd reluctantly take the consolation prize of the Ryanair in the following couple of seasons if necessary. I'd do it that way because as a super rich owner I would want the glory and wouldn't need the money. Many people remember a Gold Cup winner. A lot remember the Champion Chase winner. Only those who backed it and a few anoraks remember the Ryanair winner.

I would like to think , as a mega rich owner,that I would want my horse in the race that gives him the best chance of oerforming at his best,whilst at the same time the best chance of winning.
Not easy and one does not always go with the other.
You can perform at your best and get beat,you can also not perform at your best and win,depending on opposition.

So taking Vautour,for me the scenario of oerforming at his best and winning would be a race around the two and a half mile distance.However,cicumstances may get me thinking about other races he could possibly win at a different distance.
His only attempt at 3m showed to me he's a very doubtful stayer over 2 furlongs longer with a hill finish. As his owner I would dismiss the Gold Cup,not right for my horse.
The Champion Chase would tempt me as I know he has speed,and I would give him an entry and wait and see what the going is when I need to decide. I would not want to take on UDS on soft ground,but decent ground I may go for it.
Whatever I decide I would want to be happy with my decision,and would not be bothered what others think or indeed bothered about whether people remember him in later years .

I concur.....Vautour stands a much better chance of collecting in the Ryanair or the Champion Chase rather than the Gold Cup; I'd be amazed if the likes of Don Cossack, Djakadam, Cue Card and Road to Riches do not finish in front of him.

thanks eternal - i didnt want to presume your answer but guessed what it would be - i love seeing the best against each other but i also love seeing horses at their very best and i think it was duffy (apologies if i am wrong - will the real poster stand up please) that spoke about how very occasionally a horse puts up a performance that makes your hairs stand up on end - and that vautour gave him that in last years jlt - clearly duffy couldnt give a monkeys that it was only the jlt - it was the performance he focused on and not the race - i think vautour has the potential to post a 185+ performance and i for one hope we get to see it and if the 2 1/2 mile trip is needed for us to see it i for one am ok with that and i would be gutted if we never see it because he tried to win races that werent quite right for him. Yes like you i would prefer him to post this kind of performance in the gc, i just dont think it is as likely as it would be in the ryanair or cc from what i have seen so far. That said i do think he could win a cc but i dont think he is capable of a 185 over 2 miles - i could be wrong

and no ratings are not everything but 185 type performances are so rare and because of their rarity need to be cherished and as such are as significant imo to a horses legacy as winning a cc or gc 

duffy - your last point spot on - i was saving that one and you got there first

My only worry if they drop him back for the QMCC and he is not quick enough they then start to repeat what they did with Champagne Fever and mess him about tripwise.

Now I know Vautour is in a different stratosphere to Champagne Fever, but it can't do him any good stepping him up, dropping him back, stepping him up again etc, then maybe dropping him in to conserve energy etc.

I think that for now, he is a 2.5miler and then maybe try and step him up next year when he is a year older. He did it the hard way in the KG, front running. That is how Cue Card used to run, but he happily settles in mid field now. If Vautour can do that in time, I think the trip will pose no problems.

I would forget the QMCC, and accept he is a staying 2.5 miler and build his career aroud that

Vautour is in a much better place than he was this time last year when he could be backed at 6/1 to win ANY race at the fetival after suffering defeat to Clarcam at Christmas. Mullins has stated previously that the horse is extremely hard to get fit and that he had to work him extremely hard in the lead up to last years festival to have him primed. Given that we know he loves Cheltenham and appears better on good ground then it is probable that the horse will improve on last Saturdays performance. However the decision on where to race him at Cheltenham will depend a lot on what shape Mullins had him in for the King George race. If he was at 100% fitness and failed to see out 3m then his ability to stay a longer trip, even on better ground, would be dubious. My own guess is that he wasn't in tip top shape and that on drier ground a fitter horse may yet still have a chance of seeing out the gold cup trip. The whole complexion of the Gold Cup race will change on this horses participation/non-participation given his running style. One thing for sure is that the likes of DC, CC & RTR would prefer to see Vautour diverted to the Ryanair. The purists will prefer to see him in the gold cup but the pragmatists will argue he has a better chance in the Ryanair. I would also argue that DC and CC would have better chances in the Ryanair but there is only one gold cup. I can see this argument running and running right up to Cheltenham as I don't envisage Mullins running the horse again before then.

well nione of us know how fit Vautour was,but I do know what I saw,and that was a horse that jumped well,travelled well and looked all over the winner,and indeed looked like winning easily.
So I think he was in pretty good shape myself.
Me eyes tell me he's a non stayer as far as the Gold Cup is concerned,but I accept I could be wrong of course.

Think we will have to wait on this lads.

- not maradona i hope

He did impossible. He also said there was more to come off.

intresting comments here.im a big vautour fan and my thinking about the king george is that hes better going left handed by a good bit.he also can jump better .  one intresting thing i recall is that when best mate got beat in the king george people were on saying he was a non stayer,he didnt do too badly after!!??  good ground.cheltenham.spring.ruby on board nothing gets close to him.don poli and djackdam simply arnt as good as him.and wp was pessimistic in his pre king george interview also.he said he was a spring horse..  im worried that pp are biggest at 12s tho as they have rubys ear..

Enjoyed reading the debate. I'm a dinosaur so the CathcartPlus will never be truly accepted. That said, of course if I owned a 2 1/2 miler, he'd be running in the Ryanair.