Just do not see a problem with the Ryanair at all.
Nowt wrong with a championship race for horses that fall between 2and 3 m.
Agree that trainers should use this race instead of forcing a horse to go over a distance not his / her optimum against specialist ones at that distance,particularly over further.
In the case of Vautour,yes he  could go 2m and possibly win the QM,but I think he would have a better chance of winning a race at his optimum distance of 2 and a half m....( in my view)
Mind you I would love to see him and UDS in the same race.........WOW!!!

I'm a big fan of the ryanair myself. Riverside Theatre's win is one of the best races i've saw.

Agree entirely with miltons Sophie. Racing has moved on.

Can you speak for everyone?! I'd bloody love a horse that could win the Ryanair. With more and more horses about, it's going to be inevitable that we will get some top class horses winning this race imo. And as ms highlighted below, the ratings suggest so.

What if the GC had always been 2m4f and they added a 3m race? It's just a distance at the end of the day.

And I think 2m4f is a tough distance as you need that blend of speed and stamina.

I don't have a problem with the Ryanair at all.

I don't see why 2.5m can't be a specialist division, just like 2m or 3m.

I personally don't like the fact that the Gold Cup is 3m2f, when all the top class staying chases are 3m. Why add the 2f just because its the Gold Cup? All the big Champion Hurdle or Champion Chase preps are 2m, not 1m6f or 1m7f.

I get the fact "it's the Gold Cup" so lets make it unique, but that's like adding an extra 10 mins to the FA Cup final because its different to all other games.

There are 8 races between 2m4 and 2m5 in the festival so I'm not sure why there is such an anti Ryanair feeling. Why doesn't everyone kick off at the Neptune or the Coral Cup?

What the Ryanair needs is a horse like Vautour to go and win the race back to back for 2-3years. Then trainers and owners would try to emulate the great Vautour in future runnings. 

No one thought much of the world hurdle until very good horses started winning the race in consecutive years. Now people are a lot more interested in trying to emulate horses like Baracouda (for a small part) Inglis Drever and obviously Big Bucks. At the end of the day owners and trainers want their hoses to be compared to the greats of the game.

I'll leave with this piece of wild speculation:    Imagine That the Ryanair had been around in One Man's day and that after his first attempt at the GC the owners/trainer decided to run in the Ryanair and he went on to be the first dual winner of the race, I bet many other owner/trainer partnerships wouldn't of minded emulating that great horse. And I doubt anyone would be putting the race down now.

wellchief

They aren't making the gold cup unique by adding distance to the race. It's heritage is tied up in the existing distance which has been there forever. If you want to tear down that history fair enough but there are far more fundamental issues to address if we are heading down that road. The festival shouldn't be at Cheltenham. It should be at Newbury. Then everybody gets a fair shake at a much fairer course. The Derby shouldn't be at Epsom and on it goes. What makes the mystique and unique aspects of these races are the quirks. In this case those extra couple of furlongs which can make a big difference.

Ill kick off at it, i would love to see it downgraded. It cant be good in any way for racing that a potential star like Vautour is favourite for a newer grade 1, when he has a good chance of winning a gold cup (and potentially more than one).
There are very few ryanair runners so far who i thought were genuinely stuck between 2-3 miles AND could genuinely compete at 2.5 with proper grade 1 horses stepping up from 2 or down from 3. Not a true grade 1 race imo.

Its annoying because Im quite ready to wade into vautour for the GC at this stage, as i think he is massive value to win the race but only decent value to run in it! Convinced he will be a much better horse in march and will stay. And im gradually leaning towards mullins running a few of his against each other in the GC as he did in the champion hurdle last year. But how can i back up my opinion with a decent wager when hes favourite for another race!

I think Vautour typifies the need and appreciation of a first class Two and a half mile race.
A lot of people think he is a superstar,so why not let him have the opportunity to be the flag bearer in the newish Grade One.
If he is as good as some say he is he could win a few and others will follow,and hey presto we have another respected and desired big race.
As MS said earlier it's already attracting high grade horses anyway.

Also without the Ryanair,we may have this "superstar"never winning a senior race at the festival.
It is possible he is not top level at 2 m or 3 m2 f,or others are better.
Nowt wrong with horses competing at the highest level over their optimum distance,in fact that's what they should be doing.

Yes it can be frustrating for fans and punters,but ultimately a horse should run in the race best suited to obtain his best performance.

People who knock the Ryanair,or think it degrading for a horse to run in it as opposed to another more prestigious race,need to either stop pocket talking (if that's the reason)or just stop being a dinosaur and accept we have another Grade One,and move on.

We have a race that's provided great excitement and been won by some top class grade one horses.
Let's embrace the race is my view.

Eeternal, no I wouldn't want to change the Gold Cup's heritage, and I understand that it's a unique test, I'm just saying I would prefer it to be over 3m, as I think it places too much emphasis on stamina, which imo means that not always the best horse in it wins, because of that extra 2f.

However, I know that it'll never change, and I accept that.

With more and more expensive French imports coming over here at a young age, I think there is a need for the Ryanair now more than ever, as the Gold Cup can be so gruelling.

In the case of Vautour, he is a young horse.  His stamina will improve with each year, so imo there is no need to rush him into the Gold Cup now.  The Ryanair can be used as an excellent stepping stone on towards the Gold Cup maybe next year.  For example, Cue Card stays and settles better now than he ever did, there is nothing to suggest Vautour won't be a King George and Gold Cup winner when he is a bit older.

I said on here many times last year that I thought Djakadam should go for the Ryanair, bearing in mind the long term plans of the horse.  He was only 6, so I thought Ryanair last year, and with that experience, and a year older, Gold Cup this year.  Ultimately, I was proved wrong because he ran second, but how that effected his longevity, only time will tell.  Based on his demolition job in the Durkan, I think he would have won te Ryanair last year, and that would place him in a better position for this years Gold Cup.

Also, the re knocking the race; I have been posting on here (just the Cheltenham forum, I don't post on any others), and there has been a strong anti Ryanair feeling ever since I first posted.  Same as the JLT "diluting" the Arkle - I just think change happens, and you have to embrace it.

If it means horses can potentially stay sound for longer, and run over their optimum trip, then I'm all for it.

I really can't believe some people think there should be no championship distance between 2 miles and 3.25.  A whole mile and a quarter of eff all?  On the flat that would be the equivalent of having nothing between 6f and 1m 4f.  This is quite clearly ridiculous.

Well Chief is correct, the main - possibly only - issue with the Ryanair is that it's competing with the Champion Chase, Champion Hurdle and Gold Cup but is called the bloody Ryanair.  It might as well have Poundland as the handle.

What a shame this race wasn't around when the likes of Dublin Flyer were strutting their stuff.

From my own  perspective, I have been brought up with the Ryanair, so I don't know of a time when it was a 3 day festival, so that may cloud my judgement.

My first ever festival was when our Vic beat Mossbank in the  Ryanair and to me it was just another top class race, and the quality has improved, by and large, ever since.

Do have to agree with the two posts above. The flat boys have Grade 1's at 5,6,7,8,10, 12f, but jumps should stick to either a break neck 2m or a grueling 3m2? Surely there's room for a compromise in the middle?

I cant remember seeing many flat horses drop back from 1.4 to take in a 6f sprint.

Ajdal ran in the Derby and, on his next start I think, won the July Cup.  Les Arcs also won the July Cup having been running in 2m Novice Hurdles at Cartmel.  This flat season Solow has carried all before him at a mile.  At one point in his career he ran over 2m at Longchamp.

Think we're getting a bit sidetracked here though, the point is that Flat horses don't have to make those massive transitions because there are championship races at reasonably spaced intervals of trip.

though you 'may' have a compelling counter argument.

I can accept it without agreeing with it. If the sport is happy to discourage me from betting antepost on the gold cup then i wont.
As headmaster eludes to, it really depends what you think is ideal division of distance and what is a massive gulf of potential racing. Ive enjoyed gold cups where you have a horse like kauto star against a horse like denman and i would similarly love to have seen a horse like vautour tackle a horse like coneygree in a gold cup. I dont want to see the gold cup become a domain for grand national types and the class horses drop into the ryanair. But if thats what the sport wants then we'll all get used to it because we wont know any different.

The issue isn't so much whether there is a need for a Championship race over that distance, it is the fact that it can also serves as a way to avoid other horses in the shorter and longer divisions, diminishing those races in the process and that most certainly isn't right.

cause and effect - i admit i didnt truly understand how far traditionalists would go to preserve the cheltenham festival as it was - so you are saying that even if the 3 highest rated horses were at their best over 2 1/2 miles you would prefer they didnt run at the festival rather than have a ryanair type race where they could compete against each other - now i get it - well there is no rationalising with that logic.

Duffy - One thing i am really struggling with which horses are we saying that have run in the ryanair would have significantly improved either the CC or the GC, or have diminished it by their absence

Denigrating people who disagree as either pocket talkers or dinosaurs is the kind of thing I'd expect to see on the other forum. Let's look at trends here taking Ireland as an example. The Giggingstown's, Ricci's, JP's and Wylie's may be good for getting horses into training but they are like these super trawlers in the fishing industry gobbling up all the best fish in a huge radius. Which in itself my not be a bad thing but if the example of Ricci and Mullins is anything to go by then there is some cause for concern.

We saw it with Annie Power. Shoe horned into the world hurdle to fail valiantly when her stamina wasn't quite strong enough to get past More Of That when most of us (who didn't back her) were virtually pleading with them to do the sporting thing and let her take her chance in the Champion Hurdle. Never happened. They subsequently targeted the Mares at the halfway distance. Was that to the benefit of racing? Similarly had Ricci owned Kauto and Denman does anybody think we'd have seen those epic tussles in the Gold Cup? Hardly. They'd have farmed the Ryanair with Kauto and tried to do the same with Denman with the Gold Cup.

People can talk about progress as much as they want. That's their prerogative. My personal view is that often they are the gullible believing the hype. For example, for me, the Thursday still remains the odd day out at the festival filled with nearly races and handicaps. Not done for the racing public but for everybody else. Still if it is indeed dinosaurs standing in the way of progress then let's not pusssy foot around here. Should the top jumps festival be at Cheltenham? Should The Derby be at Epsom? Surely if we want the absolute best horses winning the top races then these courses militate against that. Better have these festivals at Newbury surely? No? Who's the dinosaur now?

Oh and one more thing. In the rush to condense the national hunt programme into four days in March some people are forgetting something. There is a championship race over two and a half a couple of weeks later at Aintree called the Melling Chase. I don't hear their executive crying about a lack of a championship two mile hurdle or chase race.

"Also the concept of prestige is complex and not a constant - look at the fa cup, when i was growing up winning the fa cup was huge, ask the average fan now if it is anywhere near as significant. Fans can change how sport is perceived and sport can change how fans perceive things, it is a complex relationship and suggesting that only those directly involved in racing can alone determine how the ryanair is perceived is simplistic."

There are a whole host of reasons why the FA Cup has lost its luster yet there is only one reason why the Ryanair is what it is. That one reason is what they have in common i.e. corporate intervention. As an avid fan and someone who is around people who work directly in racing i like to think my perceptions aren't changed too easily by outside forces.

"Change on the other hand prioritises the here and now and the future and the 'embrace' comment talks to the pointlessness of fighting change"

Fighting change maybe pointless but some of us here are fighting for how we believe the Ryanair should be perceived. Perhaps endure would be a better word then embrace in this case.

Eeternaloptimist hit the nail on the head there. Every trainer know their options. Cheltenham has become huge which is not a bad thing but to the detriment of other racing throughout the season. Everybody knows the Melling is a good option for chasers. If the rich owners don't want to go to Aintree it's their problem. Nobody's forcing those rich owners to run at Cheltenham. As EO points out, they can wait 2 weeks for Aintree which is a prestigious race meeting in its own right.

In the case of the three highest rated horses best over 2m 5f, so what? Let them race at Aintree then! If it means that much to them finding out who the best is, then they'll take each other on but highly unlikely! As a poster above said, Annie is another one who has had to give way to stable-mates. The Kauto/Denman theory is absolutely spot on. Ricci and Mullins would never have them face each other. Both wouldn't be as loved and memorable as they are now.

Bottom line is I don't think people are fighting change. If anything we want LESS Graded races and options for these owners/trainers to duck each other. We race to find out who the best is. Speed and stamina test are the traditional barometers. If horses can't measure up to those measures, then they don't deserve to go to Cheltenham. In the case of Vautour, he has had to give way to UDS. That is not in dispute. in the case of Annie, she had to give way to hurricane FLy AND Quevega when the Aintree hurdle was an alternative too.