To all those saying there is nothing to know. How do you know

maybe pp are starting to realise that thy are getting known for getting it right and have sussed that they have ability to influence ap wagers to mop up easy cash.

i.e punters start to trust their info, they use this trust to take a view on a horse like vautour, because punters now trust them they divert funds to the alternative market and hey presto they have driven behaviour - what a dream scenario for a bookmaker - enticing money by shortening prices - the bean counters would be having orgasms

miltons sophie has summed it up perfectly. There's nothing to know at this stage. It's not as though he's just came a 10 length third in the KG and now everyone is wondering if he will still go down the Gold Cup route or drop back in trip for the Ryanair but PP have him shortest for the Ryanair so "they must know given their link to the yard" ... we are just under 3 weeks from knowing his target ourselves, Mullins/Ricci/Ruby won't know his target until then either. Fair enough I think his target may well be the Ryanair after Boxing Day, but what if he comes out and wins? Are they really going to send a King George winner back in trip for the Ryanair when the GC is the one he's desperate to win? Not a chance. Until Boxing Day, this is nothing but speculation.

By the way Djakadam slammed his rivals in the John Durkan it should be him going over the Ryanair!!!

He did prove he stayed the GC trip last year though chief! Something Vautour hasn't yet... And even winning a KG won't prove it.

I agree CCM there was no other option but if they have three good darts for the GC they'll fire them all.

It was a bit tongue in cheek CCM, but if they said Djakadam for the Ryanair, I'd have no doubt he would be (and should) be fav.

Agree with gutfeeling in that whether he wins the KG or not, we won't know his targer until the week before the race, and this thread will go on and on for months!

Have a fiver on for me CCM, I'm good for it

Would not surprise me at all if we know his target after the Lexus and KG are run.
Djakadam will run in the Lexus and should run a big race enhancing his Gold Cup chances.
Vautour will run in the KG and it could well be clear after that what his target will be.
If he stays......GC, if not Ryanair. Should really be that simple,and I think it will be.

I'm more of the thinking anyone who thinks he can win a KG on the back of his last run doesn't warrant a reply myself.

The form of the last race puts Ptit Zig as the better horse given the weight concession and the proximity of the pair at the finish and what he has done for the form is very little to boost the merits of Vautours defeat of him has it not.
I'll not ask what Third Intention or Seventh Sky has done to boost the form either as we already know don't we.
Vautour jumped out to his left which cost him ground and Kempton is sharper and they'll be going a bit faster so this will cost him too much ground imo.
As for the fitness angle lets be straight about this. It's a something you can't quantify sat at home so you shouldn't entertain it as a feasible piece of reasoning and you're really guessing at something just because someone else said it, Not really a angle I'd entertain.
As for what I should do with my money I'll keep the money side between myself and my bookmaker but thanks for the offer.
I've stated on other threads before I'm a backer or trader IR not a layer. Sure someone would happily accommodate you.

^^ Very good points.

Agreed with mincer here, there is no need trawling through formlines involving ptit zig or horse b and c, those of us who are fans of this horse pretty much are basing it on and believing that what they saw in the supreme and particularly in the performance in the JLT was a display that comes along once in a while and one that is produced by an absolute monster, and that is what vautour is, a monster.

Provided they find the right races for him to produce his optimum in I have little doubt he'll show himself to be the best horse in training...only my opinion though

Good post duffy, and he may well be adaptable trip wise, a bit like Kauto Star was. Not saying he couldnt win the champion chase, if he was a definite runner in that, hed be ante post fav in my opinion, only just mind you.
But to me the way he won the JLT, its hard to believe he wont stay 3m particularly at a track like Kempton, now whether he gets the Gold Cup trip is a different matter, although its fair to say that theres not been too many king George winners who didnt get the Gold Cup trip, maybe Florida Pearl, Edredon Bleu and Wayward Lad, im not going to count One Man, as he was a bit of an enigma.

Mincer I'll leave you to it then as you clearly don't need a opinion at odds with yours clogging up a open forum.
Good luck for the 26th. A good round of jumping and your charge has a chance but for me he's a better bet for whatever you fancy him for in March on a course he has always shown his very best at.
Best wishes.

I felt you was but all's fair in love & racing so never any hard feelings here as I can be as bad on occasions :)

I wasn't saying Ptit Zig is the better horse though so sorry if I came across that way just saying with the 5lbs he conceded on the day he came out of the race with more credit than Vautour.

Of course Vautour will improve from a debut run but given how incredible he looked when we last see him on course you have to say the run was underwhelming so perhaps I am being a touch harsh about him.

FWIW I feel he has a fantastic chance in the GC I just don't feel Kempton will bring out the best in him and if I really went into the form I'd struggle to find a piece of form that makes me think his current price for the KG is justified as it all seems to be about potential whereas at Cheltenham at least we know he has been there & done it twice now with both performances being by far his best visually and in the formbook so I'd much rather cover him in March than december personally.
I guess that's what I was trying to say, Maybe I dressed it up a bit incorrectly.

Some would argue that a horse made for Kempton should not be jumping left handed at Ascot.
Just saying.

Anyone thought about the possibility of Vautour going to Leopardstown and Djakadam to Kempton?
Leopardstown being left handed could suit V better and D don't mind either.
Not saying it will happen of course,but it could be on their minds.

Problem with the Lexus is that the ground tends to be on the Soft side whereas the KG normally has some decent ground. I'm sure they'd want the latter when tackling 3m for the first time. The jumping to the left issue has really put a spanner in the works. Would be great to see him in Leopardstown.