Cheltenham Festival
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Faugheen
Faugheen
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Im not sure many of us think he'll end up in the Neptune Harry, especially seeing how season has panned out so far. Think it's more some of us had a nibble at nice prices a while back for the Neptune and are still hoping more than anything else.
FWIW, I think he could win either but my only hope may now be that BH is rerouted to supreme and Faugheen then drops to Neptune. Also think his jumping will be better the faster he goes |
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The trouble is if he goes the AB for less of a strain on his jumping Kings Palace is there who will jump him into the ground
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well doesn't seem entirely true tory, as i read plenty are still, even yourself are still thinking he might end up in the neptune for pocket terms but doesn't seem realistic that was all...
i do agree he would have a chance in that race but seems strange to me, that his races so far have been over staying trips and am very surprised people aren't talking more in regards bets for the albert race...after all, he ran over 2m6f on debut haven't had time to read all the views, clearly the horse is a machine and for me rates one of the better ante post horses but just how the 2 horses have been campaigned so far i'd be surprised if he didn't end up in albert race i haven't got involved yet so wish all the hopers well with neptune just surprised the ramping wasn't the other way round judging by his preparation so far and of course briar hill who has been campaigned over shorter trips so far and has also been talked of as a stayer |
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SJ
why won't faugheen's jumping improve in a better race?? you seem very keen on faugheen to miss the race and go in the faster run 2m5f race why should faugheen be so scared of kings palace anyway?? looks just as good as that horse, engine wise at least, just needs to learn to jump better i take it your on kings palace sj?? |
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It may well very improve for a better race mate. But watching Kings Palace and looking at the Neptune field right now I think the Albert Bartlett with KP in the field will put more of a strain on his jumping.
He may well be better than KP no doubt he's extremely talented but I think KP is the best novice about, unlike Faugheen right now he's proved his jumping, he's proved he stays the trip at a real pace, and he's proved it round Cheltenham |
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be nice to see him over a shorter trip to see exactly what he has got before relegating him to the AB imo, ok he got 3 miles against inferior opposition I want to see if he can do that over 2m 2f - 2m 4f against speedier types who will get those buttons pushed, if he,s not got he pace go AB if he wins on the snaff again, he surely goes neptune
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it does make me laugh, the hope and ramping...it is amazing when money is involved
on one hand all the hopers who have vouchers on for the neptune and on the other hand we have kings palace backers who know that by faugheen turning up, the voucher isn't the one that they first thought  twitchy bums time for those palace backers, i may adddon't be offended lads just having bit of fun...it comes with ante post betting and when dealing with willie mullins, quite comical for the neutral reading this thread though  |
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My but feeling is that he's a better horse than Briar Hill and has more natural speed, which is why I'd like to see him be given the chance at a shorter trip against better opposition. In contrast, in both of BH's races he's looked to me to be in need of a step up.
Like I said before though, looking at it objectively, his prep does read more AB than Neptune. |
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fwiw I don,t think mullie knows what this horses best distance is
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faugheen might still end up in neptune,briar hill entered in tolworh and saturday,briar hill will the supreme like ive said all along,faugheen will win the neptune !
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Unfortunately I'd highly imagine Briar Hill will run in the Slaney on Sunday
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will the racing be on in ireland,cork already saying course is waterlogged !
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You are all bonkers trying to second guess what WM is going to do with his novices. Look at the history. He never runs his novices over set distances. He likes them all to try differing distances. Nobody has a clue where they are going to run. And for what it is worth I don't think WM is sure yet either. Last year CVB was the one person who called it right if I remember right. When he gets back from his holiday hopefully he will let us all know his thinking. For what it is worth my current novice WM AP portfolio is :
Supreme - Moyles Park Neptune - Faugheen AB - Briars Hill Arkle - Felix Yonger Jewson - Champagne Fever RSA - Ballycasey Yep. I reckon Willie will win a few of the novices races at Cheltenham. |
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still think champagne will be arkle bound,they will have too much money on now,ballycasey not running over xmas would be a concern,briar hill will win supreme,yes i know he looks like he wants a trip but so did champagne fever last year,faugheen will win the neptune ! felix yonger will win jewson ! its simple lol
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Well at least I got one right ! …….
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he will win the bumper aswell with that caviar thing !
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Briar Hill with a Tolworth entry has mixed things up a bit!
Faugheen is generally 7/1 and 8/1 for the Neptune and AB, so the 5/1 to win any race on offer seems a fair bet for a few points less. Whatever race he goes for, he'll definitely be shorter than that. I'm a NRFB Neptune backer, but I now think he'll end up in the potato race. |
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Arkle - Felix Yonger
Jewson - Champagne Fever RSA - Ballycasey Spot on Hayling...or at least it should be on all evidence seen on the track this season. |
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Not so sure re the hurdlers though
But I think now that Faugheen will go AB, and Briar will go Neptune. |
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if it hadnt hit that fence it would be 5-4 now for the arkle,and if ruby wants,ruby normally gets !
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harry callaghan
harry callaghan 30 Dec 13 17:45 Joined: 10 Nov 07 | Topic/replies: 2,154 | Blogger: harry callaghan's blog it does make me laugh, the hope and ramping...it is amazing when money is involved on one hand all the hopers who have vouchers on for the neptune and on the other hand we have kings palace backers who know that by faugheen turning up, the voucher isn't the one that they first thoughtLaughtwitchy bums time for those palace backers, i may add don't be offended lads just having bit of fun...it comes with ante post betting and when dealing with willie mullins, quite comical for the neutral reading this thread thoughGrin twitchy bums?You must be joking, told you mate, KP has it in the book course best hurdling technique of any novice and a proper run race at the distance. Faugheen could be anything but I'm happy with the proven and E/W I cant see KP out the frame. Faugheen still has it all to prove |
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No twitchy bum here as my main bet on FAUGHEEN, is to win any race at Cheltenham Festival.
I would be most surprised if the horse ran in the AB over 3M, he didn't seem to excel for the extra 3F at the weekend, and I think it was a ran chosen by date, and desire to get another run into the horse, than a strategy to suggest 3M is the end game this season over hurdles. Another run is planned, most probably at the end of Jan/Start Feb, and WM will pick the best available choice of race, at that time in the racing programme to complete build up to the Festival, irrespective of trip. Kings Palace is also a harder horse to beat at Cheltenham than anything running in the Neptune, and the Neptune has more prestige, and a roll-call of top horses winning it, that beats any other Festival novice/juvenile hurdle, as a building block to the future. Anyone with a Neptune Voucher is favourite to get a run in my book. |
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Harry, you've really pissed me off here actually. I don't say that lightly as you are normally someone who's opinions I respect and I like to hear what you have to say.
'Ramping' is an incredibly derogatory term - it basically means someone has hyped something for their own personal gain. I don't believe anyone on here is hyping faugheen for the Neptune in the hope of personally gaining from it Have I backed faugheen for the Neptune? Yes, but for only £30. This is a small percentage of my total bet for the race and simply means that if he turns up, and hits all trends, that I may not have to punt much more on the day in that race. I would clearly like him to be in the Neptune but would never hype him for that race on the basis of personal gain. Everyone on here loves Cheltenham - for me the year runs 2nd week in march to 2nd week in march. To say people are hyping or ramping is unfair, and best left to stocks and shares boards |
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tory,
i certainly didn't mean to aim the post at yourself and wasn't actually, so don't be offended...just would prefer to talk about the horse and his achievements on the track/his targets subjectively, rather than people posting, just because they want the said horse to go for a certain race because it favours there pocket/bet, this is ramping for the said horse to go for this race because it favours there bet... sj confirms my first thoughts above...copy/paste my post then telling me about KP...but earlier in thread is telling us faugheen should go neptune...why because he has backed KP and doesn't want to see faugheen in the said race... anyway moving on for what it is worth i am most keen on his chances to win the albert race, just think he is a stayer who has gears plus as much as i like/respect kings palace think he is very short for this...i get the feeling faugheen will just have to much pace for KP, cheltenham form or not kings palace comes across as a tool but for me has beaten trees so far in very slow times on good ground...we are not getting any sweets at all at the current odds imo but are with faugheen if we knew he was going here... what i do agree with sj about, is faugheen still has a lot to prove, as he himself, hasn't beaten much so far himself but mullins is getting the experience into him and i like how he is being campaigned so far... how he is being campaigned so far however, is as an albert horse...if he was seen as a neptune horse i would of wanted him to have been trained over shorter but i think the reason he has campaigned over further is to help his jumping... like i said, he reminds me of mikael d'haguenet who himself wasn't that fluent as a novice but think was a quicker horse as he showed in his prep races... that isn't to say i think faugheen is slow, he certainly isn't, he himself won't be out of place in the neptune at all imo just that i think from a betting point of view i will be much more keener for the albert race myself...and i do want to bet him for this race as like the betting angle and the odds i would be getting...we will see |
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No worries Harry - I'd been out so guess the lesson for me is don't drink and write!!
At this stage id be much happier if my money was down for the AB rather than the Neptune as that does appear the most likely target. The other option, as you alluded to, is that he's been running over further to assist his jumping, and once that is sorted he'll be dropped back. |
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no worries tory, i suppose you could read it negatively...still warms the blood up!!
well i don't think it is out the question at all, he could turn up in neptune, so wouldn't be tearing my ticket up just yet... i suppose i just look to see the angle that would most suit what i want, as do like to pin point races for certain horses and bet accordingly, it isn't that i can't have him winning the neptune but wouldn't bet him for that race, i am however very keen for the albert race as like the betting angle... i suppose similar to those who are on the palace horse in the same race, they think they have the edge, i just feel he is being overbet at the odds and feel i have a horse who will take him to task at the odds i want |
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i think from a betting point of view i will be much more keener for the albert race myself...and i do want to bet him for this race as like the betting angle and the odds i would be getting.
is this not a kind of ramping harry? subjectively?? you say KP is too short at 5,s (current odds) but faugheen is backable at 7,s or 8,s ?????????? imo they are both too short fwiw id like to see faugheen in the deloitte if he bolts up impressively, my Neptune bet could still be down the swanney as surely the supreme would enter the equation, but until the horse is given a chance at excelling at a lower distance then we will all never know including mullie if this horse has that potential.... |
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well alleged i haven't had a wager, clever way of putting though, so well done
KP is a general 9-2 chance which although we aren't getting much sweets at those odds, doesn't mean i don't think he isn't the right price, just that there isn't any value in that price like i said above i see the angle with KP as think the race lacks depth, i see the angle as looks an ew bet to nothing at this stage, so have nothing against the horse, he is very likeable but as i said above i don't believe he has achieved much more than faugheen (also think faugheen is the better horse) hence my reasoning for thinking i am getting good odds at 8-1 faugheen, in a race lacking depth but as someone will point out to me soon, the reason we are getting 8-1 is because he is also in the neptune...i will be happy to take a lower price when i know he is a runner i was just merely pointing out that i wish to bet him for the albert race but am less keen for the neptune because of how the horse has been campaigned, not because i have the bet the horse for a certain race i have no problem picking the bones out of horses i have backed as makes you a better punter, its like felix yonger who i have buttons on in the arkle, it seems to have been very well backed for the arkle in the past 2 days but why has it?? it has just run badly so why do i wish to back it off the back of a poor run...yes i've backed it but he now makes some of the market and has questions to answer, so other angles will appear and hopefully we can profit off the back of it...keeps me honest |
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I think the way faugheen has been campaigned has us all in a muddle especially the way he won his bumper, he,s clearly not short of speed but as we have seen this year he also has stamina, combine the 2 and you get a Neptune horse imho.
I read a quote on another forum yesterday while I was digging that walsh favours Neptune while mullie favours AB, I suppose the next race for him will tell us a lot more about where they are heading. I think as punters we feel mullie is keeping us in the dark but I honestly feel he doesn't know where any of his horses are going yet  |
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The bet with hill yo win any race is the proper bet... Regardless were this horse shows up it will be shorter than 7/2.. There is no way this horse will be beat next time out and then it will get the Mullins banker tag like 1 horse does every year and be punted into short odds favourite... Anybody wanting to bet it just do it with hills and sit back and let it run no point sweating your bollox off the next 3months.
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The bet with hill yo win any race is the proper bet... Regardless were this horse shows up it will be shorter than 7/2.. There is no way this horse will be beat next time out and then it will get the Mullins banker tag like 1 horse does every year and be punted into short odds favourite... Anybody wanting to bet it just do it with hills and sit back and let it run no point sweating your bollox off the next 3months.
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Kings Palace has beaten horses of a far greater quality than anything Faugheen has faced. Creepy came out and won a G2 nto. The 2nd that day Timesremembered has also won a G2 and placed in a G1, Monbeg Dude has also won and Kaki De la Pree has won a cl 2.
Nonsense to say he has beaten nothing imo. |
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Having watched the limerick race back i don't actually think be appreciated the step up to 3m. He seemed to be tiring and his worst jumps came at the end. He won on the snaff simply because he's so good.
If he runs in the Neptune then I can see a simonsig type performance. Also didn't realise how well Felix yonger travelled until I watched that back today as well |
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Also, if anyone wants to back Briar Hill for the Neptune then coral have gone standout 14/1
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Deepingfox, i thimk the AB is quickly becoming a good race as a building block for future winners.
2005 Moulin Riche 2006 Black Jack Ketchum 2007 Wichita Lineman won the Ritz club 2008 Nenuphar Collonges 3rd in Ritz club 2009 Weapon's Amnesty won Sun Alliance Chase 2010 Berties Dream 2011 Bobs Worth won Sun Alliance Chase & Gold Cup 2012 Brindisi Breeze 2013 At Fishers Cross Compare that to the same period of Neptune winners, 2005 No Refuge 2006 Nicanor 2007 Massini's Maguire 3rd Sun Alliance Chase 2008 Fiveforthree 3rd Coral Cup 2009 Mikael d'Haguenet 2010 Peddlers Cross 2nd Champion Hurdle 2011 First Lieutenant 2nd Sun Alliance Chase & 2nd Ryanair 2012 Simonsig won Arkle 2013 The New One |
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harry callaghan
harry callaghan 31 Dec 13 10:06 Joined: 10 Nov 07 | Topic/replies: 2,161 | Blogger: harry callaghan's blog tory, i certainly didn't mean to aim the post at yourself and wasn't actually, so don't be offended...just would prefer to talk about the horse and his achievements on the track/his targets subjectively, rather than people posting, just because they want the said horse to go for a certain race because it favours there pocket/bet, this is ramping for the said horse to go for this race because it favours there bet... sj confirms my first thoughts above...copy/paste my post then telling me about KP...but earlier in thread is telling us faugheen should go neptune...why because he has backed KP and doesn't want to see faugheen in the said race... anyway moving on for what it is worth i am most keen on his chances to win the albert race, just think he is a stayer who has gears plus as much as i like/respect kings palace think he is very short for this...i get the feeling faugheen will just have to much pace for KP, cheltenham form or not kings palace comes across as a tool but for me has beaten trees so far in very slow times on good ground...we are not getting any sweets at all at the current odds imo but are with faugheen if we knew he was going here... what i do agree with sj about, is faugheen still has a lot to prove, as he himself, hasn't beaten much so far himself but mullins is getting the experience into him and i like how he is being campaigned so far... how he is being campaigned so far however, is as an albert horse...if he was seen as a neptune horse i would of wanted him to have been trained over shorter but i think the reason he has campaigned over further is to help his jumping... like i said, he reminds me of mikael d'haguenet who himself wasn't that fluent as a novice but think was a quicker horse as he showed in his prep races... that isn't to say i think faugheen is slow, he certainly isn't, he himself won't be out of place in the neptune at all imo just that i think from a betting point of view i will be much more keener for the albert race myself...and i do want to bet him for this race as like the betting angle and the odds i would be getting...we will see I do not fear Faugheen mate. He could be anything yes but KP has proved way more so far, if Faugheen turns up I'll still be more than confident on what I've seen so far |
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Brandyontherocks,
I think the Neptune is much the pre-eminent Novice Hurdle, the AB is usually a very thin affair on quality, as evidenced by revising your list below, the easy option for Faugheen would be to go for the AB and take on Kings Palace. I think that Faugheen is better than that and can win the Neptune, so he should run in it. Bobs Worth apart, and taking each year in turn the winner or runner up in the Neptune is usually the better horse that year, and for the future too. Denman vs Black Jack Ketchum 1-0 for Neptune. Tidal Bay vs Wichita Lineman 2-0 FiveForThree vs Nenuphar Collonges 3-0 Diamond Harry vs Weapon Amnesty 4-0 Peddlars Cross or Reve De Sivola vs Berties Dream 5-0 Rock on Ruby vs Bobs Worth - maybe honours even here, both won Championships, and depth with Neptune (First Lieutenant vs Mossley). Simonsig vs Boston Bob 6-0 Neptune The New One vs At Fishers Cross 7-0 Neptune Albert Bartlett 2006 Black Jack Ketchum beat Powerstation 2007 Wichita Lineman bear Air Force One 2008 Nenuphar Collonges beat Liskennet 2009 Weapon's Amnesty beat Pride of Dulcote 2010 Berties Dream beat Najaf 2011 Bobs Worth beat Mossley 2012 Brindisi Breeze beat Boston Bob 2013 At Fishers Cross beat African Gold and Inish Island Compare that to the same period of Neptune winners, and placed horses. 2006 Nicanor beat Denman 2007 Massini's Maguire beat Tidal Bay 2008 Fiveforthree 2009 Mikael d'Haguenet bear Karabak and Diamond Harry 2010 Peddlers Cross beat Reve De Sivola and Rite of Passage 2011 First Lieutenant beat Rock on Ruby 2012 Simonsig beat Felix Younger 2013 The New One Fav for Champion Hurdle |
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I do not deny the Neptune is the more prestigious race, and therefor will provide a better field. But I was replying to your statement as a race regarding being a stepping stone to future champions. As the list shows the AB has provided 4 to the Neptunes 1.
Surprised you feel Diamond Harry was a better horse than Weapons Amnesty. Weapons went on to win the RSA, beating DH, and was on most people's shortlist to follow up in the next seasons Gold Cup. |
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Vautour = Supreme
Briar Hill = Neptune Faugheen = AB ...at least that's what my pocket is hoping for |
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Yep,Weapons Amnesty different class to Diamond Harry. Such a shame, he really looked to be heading to the top.
 DH never got anywhere near there,one of the most overhyped horses on here over the years. |