Wonder if PC and SS will both turn up at Kempton on the 27th? Their presence is bound to scare a lot of the opposition away despite the good place money on offer because of the effect on their handicap mark. A 5/6 runner race with 3/4 rags probably won't tell us a lot and I suspect the confrontation won't happen. Bloodless victory for one or the other the most likely outcome which will please me for one - I want to see the showdown in a championship race in March.

Peddlers has been building toward his chasing career also, the fact he was good enough to run HF close is just another example of how good he is.....mccain too has been rattling on about his excitement at him going chasing from the very start.....in PC we are most definitely not talking about a hurdler that is now having a bash over fences because he's run his course over hurdles.....we are talking about (in the eyes of connections) about a chaser first and foremost who was also able to rank among the very best over hurdles.

I think sometimes reading these threads and listening to comments stating that you can't take hurdles form into account going into the chase career, you almost get the impression that there is a suggestion that the higher ranking is in some way in fact a "negative" in as much that the others will obviously catch up to a horse that was so good over hurdles and couldn't be as good over fences.....but as pointed out earlier, PC is regarded as a "chaser" in the making not a hurdler and in any case there is nothing wrong in taking hurdles ratings into account as a good starting point you can then revise your opinions as the chasing career develops, lets face it , when you see a novice chase at the start of the season how many of the favs. are the best hurdler from the previous season...but it's just a starting point....no one blindly sticks to that view as the chasing career develops and the contrary begins to show itself. 

As regards to the facts and figures and how many runs they all had, if you want to summise how good AF and SS would have gotten to in a second season over hurdles...who knows, but you can ask yourself how close you think they would have got to HF himself......as well as spirit son (at the start of the season connections wouldn't have known about his delays...and to HF's also come to think of it) grandouet and zarkander along the way.

It's a fascinating conundrum and i'd be very happy to see a 3 way dead heat.

AF is one im keeping on side tbh. I have not backed him and dont intend to but this is one race it is dangerous to make strong early opinions on imo. For Non Stop may not look like a great yardstick to judge AF's last run by, but for me Nick Williams ALWAYS gets his novices to improve from one run to the next. He has a history of doing that with his horses and is evidenced this season with the likes of Urbain De Sivola and Eric Morris' old pal Zaynar!!

As Budd says .. For Non Stop could boost the form on his next run .. it would be nice to see him take on SS at Kempton actually.

This should tell us more:

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/11/12/20/manual_113240.html&BID=465

I'd not be surprised if Henderson finds an excuse tbh. SS needs more match practice before taking on PC imo.

Think 2m round Kempton will favour SS big style - if he jumps well I doubt Peddlars will see which way he went

That should stir things up a bit

Good post Duffy...

There is one very interesting question to ask ourselves here in regards to betting at kempton if they meet?

Can be a strange track for some horses Kempton and Peddlers has never been right handed in his life...it would have to be, a big if for me, betting pre race without knowing, how, or how not, he might act....do others share the same thoughts or would you just bet pre race on how good you think either horse may be???

Crikey Harry -  are you losing confidence in your assertion that PC is different gravy to SS

I thought this had always been the plan for SS, and it's PC that has been rerouted due to heavy ground at Haydock. Surely if anyone swerved it it would be PC, as this wasn't the plan. Hopefully they both turn up and we get a cracking race, at the moment without a bet a in the race I'm in the PC corner.

unclepuncle
20 Dec 11 15:28
Joined:
16 Feb 03
| Topic/replies: 1,408 | Blogger: unclepuncle's blog
Crikey HarryShocked -  are you losing confidence in your assertion that PC is different gravy to SSLaugh




Punkle I actually like to punt when I think there is an edge... I'm actually not biased in the slightest in regards to Peddlers and Sprinter if you read my original post you would know that...I know who I think is the better horse...but haven't really got deeply involved punting wise in the Arkle as I need to feel I'm getting the edge and need to see more, to form a strong opinion...and there is no edge for me with Peddlers at 7-2 and Sprinter at the gruesome price of 6's...(others may have bigger however) my only argument was in regard to Sprinter, was he isn't really the type to make into a serious Champion hurdle horse as he is built to make a chaser and his trainer never had any thought in his mind about it either...its all ifs and pans pots and pans for me....still move on...

My question which still hasn't been answered... was what people thought if they met at Kempton...like i say I have peanuts on Menorah at a price I think is good... Just am interested to see whether people would punt confidently pre race without knowing how Peddlers might handle going right handed?

Don't know why I get involved in these jump debates, should just stick to the flatdon't bring up Gan Amhras punkle...although we can talk about the legend Kris Kin at the 25's if you want...one of the greatest derby's ever run...what a horse he waswhen Kieran brought the reins through at the furlong pole it was so exciting!!!aww the memorys

Yes I think you'd intuitively feel that Kempton would probably suit Sprinter a little more, just because of his natural speed, but that's not to say it wouldn't suit PC. I'd just be more confident in PC seeing him off when stamina is more at a premium (we all saw Sprinter struggle up the Cheltenham hill last season).

I wonder whether, from a trading perspective, now is the time to back Al Ferof if you fancy him. I personally respect him greatly but he is my third choice of the three big guns so will likely pass this opportunity up. Am just thinking, should PC and SS take each other on, is there a result that could possibly cause Al Ferof to lengthen? Seems like whatever happens he will either stand firm in the ante-post markets or shorten if one of the other big guns performs badly at Kempton. Thoughts?

One final thought - Bud, you said earlier you just watched the Supreme again and were impressed by Al Ferof's speed up the hill. Game of opinions and all but that is not what I saw at all. I saw a horse come up the hill in grand fashion, displaying bags of stamina and a great attitude, but I thought he was done for toe by Sprinter and Cue Card when it quickened coming down the hill, and being on the back foot approaching that downhill fence is a more precarious position to be in than when you are charging at a hurdle. My only concern with him is that he lacks the natural speed of the other two (and Menorah and Cue Card incidentally). I'd be concerned that he'll run a Somersby or Medermit-like race and stay on too late in the day.

He was outpaced coming down the hill,no argument from me there Tom.I watched the race again just now,in particular to see how Sprinter settled,and he was just ahead of Al Ferof for much of the race and coming to the 2nd last he had gone about 5 or 6 lengths up on AF and going better.Once they jumped the 2nd last though,thats when AF really got into gear,and he just flew from there and did not stop till after the winning post.
Spirit Son finished really well from just before the last and AF left him up the hill.
It was the sustained run from the 2nd last which really impressed me,and should he repeat that in the Arkle then any horses that may have done him for pace earlier will have to be some way ahead to beat him imo.
PC is the sort of horse that could be hard to peg back though,i have to admit.He stays further and is very tough.
Having Ruby on board will be crucial,cos the pace of the race will have to be judged to perfection,and none better than him for that.
Im doing well for someone that werent gonna say much more till they run again

This debate about SS not staying up the hill reminds me of what the majority of punters said about Binocular when he was beaten in the Supreme as a 4 year old by Captain CeeBee (an older horse) and then beaten in the Champion as a 5 year old by Punjabi (an older horse). For two years we had the debate about whether Cheltenham suited Bino, and whether or not he finishes up the hill, this despite him PLACING at the track several times.

When SS matures there is no doubt he'll finish up the hill as strong as the rest of them.

IMO

looking forward to this clash i think peddlers may get a tonking!!

I wouldn't worry excessively abut AF being outpaced down the hill in the Supreme. That's very much Ruby's style at Cheltenham. His aim is not to ride the horse at all coming down the hill (i.e. give them a breather then) because he believes that's the best chance of the horse coming back up. He's got some pithy aphorism to express the idea which I presently can't remember.

only different gravy over hurdles as he has another season to prove it ss went straight chasing so more untapped

Should have said too far ahead of him

That wasn't his only defeat (I know he was 'over the top' at Aintree but still)

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