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* Abandoned meetings during severe weather
* Abandoned meetings during severe weather
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it was simple when i got up yesterday,friday was still friday.Then we were told that friday had become sunday ,before then being informed that friday would no longer be sunday,nor would it revert back to friday,it had now become xmas day.Then saturday arrives and we are told saturday can remain as saturday provided a uk meet is still on ,if naas is the only to survive then saturday will be sunday.tomorrow is sunday.will it stay sunday or will sunday become saturday as saturday nicked sundays spot in the week or maybe it could become friday.Surely it makes more sense to leave sunday rules just for real sundays
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Under the rules of the comp, Saturday is NOT an optional day.
Under the rules of the comp, Irish meetings ARE eligible. Today is Saturday and there is an Irish meeting going ahead (at the moment). What am I missing here? |
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mad I dont know where china's post has gone - nuthger thread, been pulled? He ws talking about preferring to decide on his shortlist as close to racing as the rules allowed
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Reg, top of Page 5 on the Settling instructions thread
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cheers MoMM
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I`m not going to bang on regarding my view being optional yesterday. What`s done is done.
We now need to clarify as clearly as we can for similar situations. It can get complicated as someone pointed out yesterday, we need a hard and fast rule that leaves everyone in no doubt. I propose what GEORGE has said above 08:56 post. As long as an eligible meeting is on then it`s a normal day, regardless of anything else. In the event of meetings getting cancelled etc non-runners are settled as such. People may or may not re-select, that`s up to them. This way is the only definate solution and leaves no doubt for any napsters or settlers. Like i said, what`s done is done. Let`s move forward with a solution. I`d appreciate it if the other settlers were on board here. |
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I agree with shane
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I don't. I dont agree with George. Irish is not a full parft of the comp, as the rules suggest by excluding it from automatic instructions. May I also say that one or two people have complainedd about the decision on here, as they are entitled to. But from the vast majority - not a peep. I take that as an endorsement of our decision.
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And in any case, yesterdays decision was not just about it being Ireland but the fact that the situation changed so much so late that it left a very uneven playing field for competitors which was deemed unfair. It's all very well with hindsight saying everyone could see what was going to happen. But I for one did not expect both UK AW meetings to go under, although in part that has to do with my complete misunderstanding of the term All Weather. I can be so naive at times!
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And finally - you cant have hard and fast rules for every situation. Either the settlers are trusted to make decisions in the best interests of ALL (and I emphasise that word) competitors or there is not much point in being a settler and I'll find something else to occupy my day.
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Many points were raised and discussed Reg.
My point in future would be to remove any doubt. As yesterday, it would be compulsory but effectively optional because for example 18 out of 19 in the premier didn`t re-post. Most will have made a concious decision not too. Surely Irish is a full part of the comp? As far as instructions go, in the past we had grey areas re last race fav so i decided to clear that up by stating GB mainland only unless otherwise stated. Seperate issue really, just needed to tighten the instruction ruling. |
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If Ireland is the only available meeting it should never be a normal day as its a foreign meeting . No problem with it being in the competition but it should never be forced on people .
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I fully support the settlers' decision yesterday. As Reged says they had to make a decision quickly as the particular circumstances had thrown up some anomalies. I have some sympathy with GEORGE's argument about Irish racing being on a par with GB and maybe there is a way of reflecting that in future. But I really wish people would try and refrain from criticising the settlers who are clearly putting an awful lot of time and effort into running the thing for our benefit.
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No you can`t Reg, hence my Rule 12.
As you said yesterday, we need to tighten up as much as we can to avoid ill feeling/bitching. Do you see my point above? We had a situation when i began settling where instructions were difficult to police for many reasons. In a nutshell, i tightened it all up by making regular posts/requests and posting my list of instructions at least once a week, along with new comers being asked to clearly state if they wished to use them, instead of them expecting instructions from 6 months back when they were in Div 2 being in force. |
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Okay i didnt know that shane. But having just seen china's post I have to say it strikes a strong chord with me.
But in any case, carping on about irish racing is rather getting away from the point. You say most would have made a conscious decision etc I'm not so sure. Many just make the one post and get on with the rest of their lives, some can't post again in time etc. I don't have a problem with doubt because i don't have a problem with making decisions as a settler in special circumstances. |
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When the subject of Meydan cropped up a year ago Shane said that we'd happily accept selections from any foreign prestige event if anyone wanted it. And that's still the case. If you want the Melbourne Cup for example, you only have to ask. But speaking as a player, I don't think anyone should ever be forced to make a selection from a foreign country on a day when there's no GB racing. And yes, I realise that Dundalk is in Northern Ireland but racing is all-Ireland over there and governed by HRI. The mainstay of this competition is GB racing governed by the BHA, and that's the form which most of us study. You only have to look at how few players ever select from Ireland or Meydan to see that they're very much optional extras. And this is reinforced by Rule 8 which clearly states that "Instructions will be applied to GB races only UNLESS explicitly stated otherwise. i.e. Eire & Northern Ireland". In my opinion, being forced to select from an Irish or Meydan card would just make it a lottery for most of us rather than a game of skill, which is what it's meant to be.
So I agree with George.B in that the wording of Rule 3 probably ought to be clarified so that there's no misunderstanding in the future. |
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Dundalk is in The Republic momm.
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Yes, it most certainly is
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If Irish racing was forced upon us just look at the overrounds . Impossible to make a profit unless you have a few small fields or group races on the card .
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Is it? Backs up how much I know about Irish racing then.
Well whichever one it is then. Downpatrick? Down Royal? Are they in NI? |
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Yep those two momm.
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heres the trouble maker back
.so salmon spray (lucky winner of champion hurdle) agrees with GEORGE B but when i said exactly the same thing he turns on me. maybe we should only have naps when there is a horse at 1/5 or under.if not then the day should be classed as a sunday.  |
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Yesterday, if I'd not seen the thread cancelling the comp and nothing had been said, I would have just gone ahead and selected at Dundalk and thought nothing more of it.
The rules are unequivocal in this instance - Fridays are compulsory and Irish meetings are elgible. You cannot allow a country's racing into a competition and then state at a later date - oh, by the way, we just happen to have different rules for that foreign 'sh!t' and if there's no UK racing, we're taking our ball home and not playing! If you are going to allow racing from other coutries to be eligible for the naps comp, then the same rules have to apply across the board. You can't treat it as second-class fodder and not worthy of the same rules and conditions. |
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I didn't agree with you making a selection at Dundalk when you knew that a decision had already been made Fidway ( or you couldn't be bothered to read the post above yours )but yes I'm not convinced that Ireland has always been secondary to GB. However there are quite a lot of people who go back further than me.
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Right, if we have a similar situation, do we vote (settlers) as per yesterday?
Three options: Compulsory Optional Cancellation |
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Wot do you mean LUCKY winner
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salmon i never knew it had been cancelled.if you look where the post saying today was cancelled,it was at the top of the 2nd page which i didnt even realise existed as i only read the whole of the 1st page.it wasnt until you pointed out the post that i realised it was there. p/s Aupcharlie is a good nap but how did you manage to select it,must have been reading through the formbook for hours
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Judging by the other selection in the Premiership I am the only one who knows how to read Irish form
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Honestly, you'd think we were trying to solve the Algerian crisis. This is a free comp and, as per the proposed rule 12, settlers took a difficult decision in difficult circumstances. If the few carpers so thoroughly disapprove of that then it is open to them either to quit the comp or volunteer as settlers in order that it may be run more in accordance with their views. Otherwise, thank you very much and here's today's selection.
shane, cant see the point of repeating that question. We all voted according to whatever conscience we have and in the best interests of all. I stand by my decision 100%. I see no reason to tinker with the rules as a result. If others do not approve then my advice is in the previous paragraph. |
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A naps comp is a naps comp if GB and Ireland are included and racing is on either side of the Irish Sea be it jumps or AW you make a choice or lose a point IMO. if you don't like the AW you still have to make a selection.
I'm the same as GEORGE.B and have no interest in jump racing but when there is no flat I still make a selection, I even compete in Undecided's NH big race comp' for a bit of interest over the winter, but that's my choice. Anyway the settlers decision if final as it should be, even if Premier, 1,2,3 settlers are slightly different in the way they run things. And that's the last you'll hear from me on the subject, over and out  |
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Surely GEORGE B's post on rules is clear enough for all?...Namely :-
1. - You have to choose 1 horse each day. Winners will be returned at SP/Industry Prices and stake is 1 point. If no SP/Industry Price is returned winning selections will be settled as non-runners. Non selection means a loser. 2. - All UK and Irish races are eligible along with the Dubai Festival and the Sunday Arc de Triomphe meet. 3. - Selections must be made AT LEAST 1 hour before your selected race. Failure to comply will result in the selection being declared Invalid and treated as a Non Selection. 4. - Selections may be changed as long as it is BEFORE 1hr prior to original race OR if selection is a NR or deemed invalid ( Rule 3 MUST still be adhered to). 5. - Rule 4 and Dead Heat rules will apply to SP/Industry Prices. 6. - Sunday selections will be optional. No deductions for non posters. (it will be compulsory if Sunday is last day of the month). 7. - LAST DAY RULES for every last day of the month : all selections must be made BY THE SCHEDULED OFF OF THE FIRST RACE of the day, you can't choose any horse already selected and only named horses are allowed (no instructions). 8. Instructions to cover holiday / days can't post will be allowed but under the following STRICT guidelines : - The instructions you wish to use must be clearly stated (Sundays will not have instructions applied unless EXPLICITLY stated otherwise). - Instructions will be applied to GB mainland races only UNLESS explicitly stated otherwise. Ie Eire & Northern Ireland - Only 10 days on instructions which do not name horses (i.e last fav , Spotform's nap etc) will be allowed each month. Once that has been exceeded one point per day will be deducted. - Horses selected from the five day entries will be allowed. If they do not run they will be treated under the non runners rule and will not count towards the 10 day instruction maximum. - In the case of more than one favourite in a race Instructions will be settled on the favourite with lowest race-card number. 9. In the event of a tie the person who has used least instructions will be deemed to finish above the person they have tied with. 10. In the event of a major Betfair upgrade which may affect the ability to post on the Forum before racing starts that day will have Sunday rules applied (ie. no deduction for non-posters). ============================================================================================= There is as much "skill" necessary re EIRE races as with AW anyway as there is with BRITISH races on AW......so really was surprised at all the fuss over rules.......when rules are pretty clear to all. Whether someone does not like a particular type of race is irrelevant....as the rules when they entered comp were clear ...IMO.  Surely the competition is to test participants skills....on a broad range of races . If from EIRE or MEYDAN ...the key factors still apply to race types...especially re CLASS races.Anyway yesterday has gone...and today ad-lib rules apply....... Does this mean the above RULE 2 no longer applies????? |
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* should be, the settlers decision is final*
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I'm coming round to Reged's view here that after pages and pages of discussion no one seems to be happy.
We give our time voluntarily and for the fun of it. Judging by some peoples comments and attitudes on here you'd think that we were being paid and making the rules up to suit ourselves. I don't see many of these people being so keen to pipe up when we ask for volunteers. I go back to my original point that sparked the whole debate. The minute it stops being fun, get's to serious and untold hassle then that is the time to walk away. That time is looming unless we can bang a few heads together and adopt some common sense rules..... At the end of the day the settlers have to make decisions and sometimes these wont please everybody |
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Hi DFC
Does this mean the above RULE 2 no longer applies????? I think it just means it needs clarifying that 'eligible' is not synonymous with 'compulsory'. Maybe this situation has never cropped before so it's never needed clarifying before. I did ask on page 1 if there was a precedent and got the reply that it now becomes optional. Although reading it again, Shane may have just been voicing his opinion of how we should proceed rather than answering my question. Not sure. But he went on to say that making it compulsory for the few remaining would be unfair.on those who had not already selected. "Optional seems the fairest way to proceed". And having made it optional we then realised that this disadvantaged some players who had already posted, and the only sensible option which would be fair on absolutely everyone would be to suspend the competition for that day and then clarify it for any future occurrence. Which is what we did. And that's the key to any decision where the circumstances are unusual or unprecedented. You have to do what's fairest for the majority of players, which I firmly believe we succeeded in doing. And if that means that Rule 2 now needs rewording in case this ever happens again, then so be it. Let's reword it. |
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i agree with weaver fish. settlers decision is final. even if it is blatantly wrong
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Fidway is right. There are going to be circumstances which arise that are unforeseen. The settlers have to make a decision and those of us who disagree with it will just have to accept it. Otherwise there will be no settlers and therefore no comp.
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perhaps be better if just one settler made the decision,as their vote was 2-2 anyway.
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no, as far as I am aware it ended 4-0
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oh ,shane said origanal vote was 2-2.But whatever,sorry if i've got up your nose in voicing my opinion on what i saw to be a poor decision reg.I agree that you did do it with good intentions though and i am grateful for all the hard work you settlers put in.still think a dictatorship would be better in decision making though.Democracy is so overrated
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no you didnt get up my nose at all ... wld be diffic, its very tight! we all see things in a different light but someone's got to make a decision and the four of us did quite amicably. yesterday was simply a one-off where rapidly changing circumstances put a significant number of people at a disadvantage
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