Politics
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25 Jun 18
14:03
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16 Dec 02
Airbus preparing to leave the UK in the event of a no deal Brexit and employs 8,000 people in the UK.
Brian Cox (clever lad on telly with the Space programmes and used to be in a band - PhD and what not) said:
"The unique thing about Brexit is that politics is going to collide with reality on a fixed date. That rarely happens. People like Fox and Johnson are bluster merchants. Their experience of life is that bluster carries the day. Engineers don't factor rhetoric into their planning."
Are any of his 5 sentences incorrect?
Brian Cox (clever lad on telly with the Space programmes and used to be in a band - PhD and what not) said:
"The unique thing about Brexit is that politics is going to collide with reality on a fixed date. That rarely happens. People like Fox and Johnson are bluster merchants. Their experience of life is that bluster carries the day. Engineers don't factor rhetoric into their planning."
Are any of his 5 sentences incorrect?
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Replies: 166
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The first thing to ask about Cox, is who is behind the funding of his salary?
The experience of life is that he who pays the piper calls the tune. That's all you need to know. |
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Brian Cox is not an engineer, or anything else he’s a tv personality
And of course regards Airbus it’s not engineers making the decisions , it’s politicians , he’s muddled |
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https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/airbus-brexit-threat-simply-not-1705711
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Of course in theory Airbus might leave, but he shouldn’t think that it has anything to do with engineering, engineers design and build things ,
That’s the important thing about engineers they don’t talk sh1te on tv |
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please read the local paper above...explains a lot..
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“You’ve got to face the fact there may now be a meltdown. OK? I don’t want anybody to panic during the meltdown. No panic. Pro bono publico, no bloody panic. It’s going to be all right in the end.”
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Brian Cox is simply not credible to talk about the realities of big business.
Big business likes to make threats. They will do what is best for them regardless |
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It ok , I’m sure Germany will survive , although they will be a litttle poorer and less secure
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@bigp why head this Airbus who said they might leave which affects 8000 jobs.
Why not use Boeing who have said they will invest in the UK and create 40,000 jobs. Not trying to mislead us are you? |
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Airbus use engines manufactured by Pratt and Whitney and General Electric, who are both American companies. Last time i checked USA not one of the 28 countries in the EU, so whats all the hysteria about?
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what's misleading about a straight reporting of what Airbus have said?
calm down - not everything about Brexit will be positive right? Even if you passionately believe it's the right thing to do - you're realists right? you're not religionists where everything about your vision of the future is perfect. In the real world some companies will decide the new UK status is not for them. you discredit yourselves with knee-jerk anger. Professor Brian Cox, for what it's worth, is a Prof of Particle Physics at UMIST and extremely well qualified to comment on what engineers factor in to their planning. He's highlighting an interesting (unique?) aspect of the Brexit; that there's an exact future date at which all the current rhetoric from people who are pushing their own agenda will cease to matter. Literally, reality will hit and - if there's a seismic impact on our economy - we will have demonstrated what we are being warned about. I accept this - crunch moment - wont lead many of you to change your views; but it will cause some to reconsider their current certainty. |
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What is misleading is that you seem to think we should give any special credence to what Brian Cox says, or even what any scientist , even a pretend one might say on how we should vote or anything else regarding outcomes and consequences
It you recall there were many real scientists in the past who were admirers of soviet Russia and were happy to turn a blind eye to the fate of millions in gulags right across that regime, they sold secrets to that country and helped it as it murdered and jailed its own citizens So no, unlike bigpop I will not be putting too much weight on anything this tv personality says |
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Or scientists, or engineers either for that matter
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If airbus leave it will be a business and political decision
nothing to do with engineering or scientific theory now if brian cox manages to come up with a new scientific, or engineering, or mathematical formula then I will take notice and say well done until then I suggest he pipes down |
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If airbus leave it will be a business and political decision
so we got there - Brexit may cause a business to leave and jobs may be lost? we agree that it's not all positive? |
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It may well be all negative , or partially negative
I don’t know |
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What I do know is what has happened over the last 20 or 40 years
I don’t like that and see no reason to believe that it will improve if we remain |
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whatever.
we agree a business may make a decision to leave based on the politics. |
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Are we still getting there?
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it's a surprise you'll admit this.
once you do (admit the possibility that businesses may leave) then you're open to the question nobody wants to answer: how many job losses (because companies leave) until Brexit becomes a mistake? is it the "right thing to do" no matter what the cost? |
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It’s like this , its a democratic decision , everyone will decide and of course Britain has no problem creating jobs
We gave millions of people coming from Europe and every corner of the world to work and live in Britain So that’s not something that should worry us undulely, excepting to say it means we need to have a good and peaceful and civil society That is something else that we lead the world on , and always have |
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I think your point is that specific job losses don't matter because the aggregate positives will replace them?
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I don’t know , as I say I don’t like what has been happening to jobs and wages and housing and the health service and crime and violence and things in general over the last years
That’s as we are and have been as part of the EU I am against it for both practical and ideological reasons |
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which I see the merit in by the way (as an abstract point). Obviously you're guessing at something we would like to be true of the future.
but you're not answering the "how many" question are you? you're saying - by way of response - it's not a possibility that there will be a mass loss of investment and jobs in the UK, as opposed to giving a number where you'd agree Brexit had created a problem. An example of a numbers based answer would/might be: 2m (net) lost jobs = no issue 5m job losses - big problem |
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I would look at it this way , if we have say a million immigrants coming into Britain every year , just as an example
Then we can afford to lose 1 million jobs Not that I think we will lose 1 million And if we don’t then things are better i right there |
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Do you know it can be quite lovely not to have the pressure of having to create those 1 million jobs,
Along with all the other problems of course |
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if a million immigrants come each year, and we lose a million jobs then our problem grew by 2 million.
you must mean, if we sent a million immigrants back then we can lose a million jobs ???? don't want to put words in your mouth, but the maths (of taking immigrants while losing jobs) doesn't work on your first statement. |
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I’m talking about if we leave the EU and stop free movement
You’re talking about the situation as it exists now The point is after we leave we will not have to create jobs to accomadate more free movement of labour If those polish or other European people already here wish to remain after we have left then things cannot be too bad can they ? |
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If we are being silly about it, it’s possible that the 1 million will remain
That’s ok, if we continue to create even half the jobs out of the EU as in we will be able to find jobs for all of them within 2 years |
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so is your point: ?
we can lose jobs if businesses leave the UK (say 8,000 at Airbus) and not worry unduly because we don't need as many jobs in the future post-Brexit UK because we currently create them for foreigners (who wont be able to come any more). sorry if I'm misrepresenting what you've said. |
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Well that’s a simplistic way of looking at it , but you started it
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It's your point, not mine.
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It merely keeping the maths simple bigpop
I don’t like big numbers , no need to say thankyou |
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@bigp You've highlighted a possible loss of 8000 jobs when a company said it was expanding by creating 40,000 jobs.
Surely, for the sake of balance, you should have mentioned that. No doubt some companies might feel the need to move away but I'm also sure most will want a foot in both camps. |
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yep - keep asking for a link for the 40,000 boeing jobs. It's definitely good news if it's real: please post the link.
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Boeing's own website says they employ 2,200 people in the UK and support many more (via the natural complexity of its supply chain). There's an announcement on their home page (from Feb 2017) about a new plant being built in Sheffield.
Please can you point me towards the detail (and the link) about the 40,000 jobs - I'm assuming this includes the onward benefit for secondary suppliers in the supply chain from whatever investment it is you're referring to? And if that's the case - do you also make the same allowance (knock on effects to the economy) when manufacturing jobs are lost (as in the case of the Airbus 8,000 jobs). Or do we keep it simple and compare apples for apples (ie. people directly employed by the company in question)? So: Boeing is 2,200 UK employees but going to 40,000 (no link to this news)? is this fair? |
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the reason supply chain is so important is of course the complexity of modern manufacturing and the pan EU integration of supply chains making Brexit - and specifically the prospect of a no-deal Exit - a big problem for most leaders of manufacturing companies.
I accept there is an "answer" to this worry; that there will be different, future, global opportunities for UK based firms once we leave the EU. I just don't see that as relevant if the companies have to go elsewhere to continue to make whatever it is they make because in the short-term our Brexit has destroyed their supply chain. Thus - interested in Boeing promising 40k new jobs absent any certainty about the terms of Brexit. Seems a hugely positive piece of news. Where will the jobs be? |
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Valid points bigpoppa.
Very good news if 40,000 jobs are to be created. It would certainly offset the Airbus losses. But I can't find the story either. |