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Premium Charge is dead
Premium Charge is dead
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Replies: 363
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Agree shaun but am I right in thinking it's cr@p for anyone that aspires to make 100k a year from very high turnover betting that in the past was able to avoid PC ?
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I agree shaun , that's the customer who will benefit.
howard, as I read it everyone over £100k in the rolling year, regardless of turnover, will be in the 40% net. |
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howard...
you need not reply so if you don't i won't be offended... but what markets are you playing in to give you a very high turnover ? |
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if you are making 100k plus per year ( 2k a week for simplicity ) you will pay 40% minus the commission generated
if your commission generated per week is 800 or above per week you won't pay any fee . if you generate 300 per week you will pay 500 commission generated is still used to offset what is owed |
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Hibby, apple yields.
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pablo, so no different to currently?
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HappyHibby 18 Dec 24 16:22
if last 52 weeks p&l is between £25,000 > £100,000 its 20% PC if your charges are under 20% ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- charges being 2% commission i presume Mr.Hunt ? no..charges are commission paid added to implied commission /2 ..thats what governs PC. |
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"anyone that aspires " doesn't auto put me in there HH. But of course if you can pay just 2% commission and no PC you have a chance on any market...as long as you can deposit more than buttons.
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the only obv diff i can see if the acc weekly charges are still relevant are..
pablo says they are which was pretty much obvious really as dropping the implied commission to 2.5% would be irrelevant. so simple enuff then. if last 52 weeks p&l is under £25,000 = no PC if last 52 weeks p&l is between £25,000 > £100,000 its 20% PC if your charges are under 20% if last 52 weeks p&l is over £100.000 its 40% PC if your charges are under 40%. if you revive an old acc an unused year wont affect as its rolling last 52 weeks. |
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Straw Poll on here, who thinks they will be a WINNER OR A LOSER from the changes?
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100% winner - and that's before any potential positive impacts from increased liquidity.
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swifty , not much difference for someone that consistently win 100k per year . i can't get my head around the "buffer" thingymajig . that might be a good thing compared to previous calculations
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will save me 20% PC ev week as i wont win £100,000 a yr.
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aye fair enough Mr.Hunt...
i always forget about the 'applied' side tbh. |
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that makes it clearer pablo...maybe not as bad as I thought
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win £99,900 a yr and account charges under 20% they take £20,000
win £101,000 a yr and account charges under 40% they take £40,000 |
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Commission generated will continue to offset a proportion of the premium charge under the new system, although they are calculating it slightly differently. A minor tweak of the implied commission from 3% to 2.5%)
Some people who were affordability checked and have disappeared for 52 weeks or more might be tempted to come back because they have a clean slate. I won't hold my breath on how large that cohort is however |
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Been paying 60% PC for years every week except if you have a losing week then your then 'allowed' to win those losses back to get back to where you were before that losing week occured .
Betfair only trying this because of something in it for themselves , liquidity being the obvious reason . |
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As Betfair suggest there will be more winners, but it's hard to believe Betfair's bottom line won't go down, so they can only think the extra liquidity/commission will offset the smaller return from PC.
People may bet more, get more money matched , pay more PC etc but if it's still only topped up to the 20%, where do BF get the difference from? |
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shaungoater 18 Dec 24 16:55
Some people who were affordability checked and have disappeared for 52 weeks or more might be tempted to come back because they have a clean slate. paul ,it wont be relevant,its calculated from the last 52 weeks of that accounts figures..would need to plaice a £2 bet once a week for a yr for it to become a clean slate. |
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grey shark 18 Dec 24 16:55
Been paying 60% PC for years try some losing bets  |
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Ah so one of the main liquidity carrots is null and void
And yes Steve, the disincentive to work when your rolling 52 weeks hits 6 figs is massive |
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No Rico , i like the way i do it ......
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Crude example. You are on £98,000. You are winning £1,999 on the week and will have total charges bill at £400. (£1600 clear)
You creep over by winning £2000 plus and you've messed up your following week. |
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shaungoater 18 Dec 24 17:02
Ah so one of the main liquidity carrots is null and void And yes Steve, the disincentive to work when your rolling 52 weeks hits 6 figs is massive im just passing time |
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some folk out there would give their right arm to be anywhere near 100k in a 52 week period...
sometimes a reality check is needed... (i include myself in that btw). |
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swift..if ewe been on 40% for yrs then its back to normal.
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good going to win 100k a yr theese daze..
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latalomne, i said it was crude!
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rico, it looks like a Xmas present, I expect they'll be something hidden in there in the t&cs when it gets launched!
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aye conquer..
method in their madness applies to most changes. |
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i actually meant in the outside world Mr.Hunt...
NHS staff (cleaners etc)... teachers... working in pizza hut or mcdonalds... winning 100k and paying a bit back on PC/Expert thingy you ain't doing too bad in life imv. |
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so simple enuff then.
if last 52 weeks p&l is under £25,000 = no PC if last 52 weeks p&l is between £25,000 > £100,000 its 20% PC if your charges are under 20% if last 52 weeks p&l is over £100.000 its 40% PC if your charges are under 40%. if you revive an old acc an unused year wont affect as its rolling last 52 weeks. win £99,900 a yr and account charges under 20% they take £20,000 win £101,000 a yr and account charges under 40% they take £40,000 unless theres a hidden agenda. BOSH  |
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that's where your 1 bet to constitute an active week comes in
could be a lot of drone users taking weeks off |
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the return of betfair holidays
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Common sense approach if £101,00 would be 20% on £100,000 and 40% on £1,000 , if that's not the case they'll drive successful punters to dry up when nearing the £100,000 threshold to remain under , if you create a fine line to jump from 20% to 40% in one small bet then it's hideous.
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Let's face it, most of us don't have the numbers for how this will affect us individually. We'll only really know on 13 January, at the end of the first week, when our Expert Fee dashboard appears. Then we'll see what or 'buffer' is, i.e., how much we can win next week before paying the fee.
But my guess (and it's only a guess) is that some of us are going to be shocked by how small that 'buffer' will be, and that Betfair are going to be shocked by the exodus it causes. Remember that it's based on having a GROSS profit (i.e., profit before commission) of just £25,000 in the past 52 weeks. There are plenty of punters who have shown a NET profit (profit after commission) of zero, or even a net loss, who will still have shown a gross profit of £25,000 over the past year. And the idea that if you're winning £100,000, then why be worried, is a red herring. £100,000 a year is just £2,000 per week. That means that if you're a punter, rather than a trader, who's prepared to lay, say, £3,000 at evens and let it run, or if you want to have a bet of £100 at 25/1, you're going to have to offer to lay at shorter odds or offer to back at bigger odds to take the Expert Fee into account should you win on the race. And, if you do win on the race, then for the rest of the week you're going to have to offer to lay even shorter odds, or back at even bigger odds, to take account of having burnt through your buffer. As I said, I'm guessing here. The buffer may well turn out to be far bigger, depending on your lifetime gross p&l. But, on the face of it, this is going to benefit the fast pics sharks and the bots trading ticks, while hammering pre-race punters and liquidity. (As usual, happy to have it explained how I've got this wrong.) |