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Premium Charge is dead
Premium Charge is dead
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Replies: 363
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If you have a very high turnover but a low profit percentage you never get to pay the PC. When the Expert Fee comes in, assuming your over 100k profit in the last year, you will pay 40% when you have a good week.
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https://www.racingpost.com/news/britain/betfair-exchange-to-introduce-new-commission-system-for-2025-as-premium-charge-is-dropped-a7wbg0v4GCAJ/
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Latalomne 18 Dec 24 15:40
Yes. I am making the assumption Revs hasn't hit the current PC lifetime threshold, and he's not said anything to the contrary. but to pay 20% u only have to play in 250 markets and be over £5000 profit and your acc charges are under 20%? |
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Expert fee ffs
The ultimate we don't give a fook middle finger |
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howard...
i'm sure you'd agree liquidity (pre-race and in running) have been falling on her for years now ? nobody is saying it's 100% down to PC but i think it would be fair to say it has put a fair few off ? and imv Betfair has calculated that it's put more off than not... which is the reason for the change imv... not saying it will work in terms of liquidity but they are clearly thinking it won't hinder it at the very least... that's my take on it anyway. |
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This benefits those who are between 25k to 100k profit and currently pay 40%. Will now pay 20% as long as keeping below 100k.
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Is that really all it is? I was caught when it was first introduced, so not sure about what they did with subsequent iterations other than I ended up paying 40%.
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only diff i can see is if your last 52 weeks isnt over £25,000 you dont pay any PC but once hit £100,000 last 52 weeks ewe pay 40%.If your charges are still relevant it wont affect anything else.
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china castle 18 Dec 24 15:45
This benefits those who are between 25k to 100k profit and currently pay 40%. Will now pay 20% as long as keeping below 100k. correct..(if your weekly charges are still relevant) |
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It's double taxation, isn't it?
Under PC you could avoid the extra fees by losing on enough markets so that others picked up your commission costs. I don't think Revs has the sums quite right, because you still build up a credit against the new fee, when you lose on a market. Where are the T&Cs anyway? I can't find them |
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. https://betting.betfair.com/betfair-announcements/exchange-news/the-betfair-exchange-expert-fee-faq-111224-6.html |
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Everything PC seems to have gone already. Just getting 404s.
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china castle 18 Dec 24 15:45
This benefits those who are between 25k to 100k profit and currently pay 40%. Will now pay 20% as long as keeping below 100k. correct..(if your weekly charges are still relevant) lata..thats the only diff i can see? |
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Under PC, theoretically you could turnover a huge amount on here, win 1.5m gross, 1m net (with 0.5m commission to BF = 50%) and not pay any PC, ever. A player like that was good for BF, and good for liquidity. Compare with someone who wins on most markets (guessing traders, folks with insider info, courtsiders or skilled punters who are very selective), who are taking 5-10 times as much money out of the pot than they were paying BF in commission - a player like that was bad for BF, and maybe not so great for liquidity either so it was not surprising that those players were particularly targetted by BF using PC. In short, with PC, if you were winning long term there was an incentive to be more gungho, bet more, be less selective. People even discussed employing systems that they wouldn't normally bother with because they would win "net zero" just to pay less/no PC.
Now I'm wondering whether I should be less gungho, bet less, be more selective. The Buffer calculation makes it difficult to figure out though without running some sample data through the computer. |
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They don't want you lingering over past resentments, Lat.
Thanks for the other link. |
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about time , surely you will get a % back for the last 16 years of PC
 i think its a step in the right direction! |
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Rico - Yes, that's my interpretation.
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Oh, other than implied commission drops from 3% to 2.5%
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Benefits the winners up to £25k as well Rico. Even a grand a year gets PC charged on it.
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aye if your last 52 weeks is over £25,000
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revs 18 Dec 24 14:53
my commission will be increasing from £1,000 to £10,000 pa.... how? |
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commission is only paid on winning bets..hows yours going go x 10?
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Work FT and earn 200k and pay 40%
Work PT and earn 100k and pay 20% A few people will be taking up new hobbies |
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HH Betfair have brought their prices down for small players. They are gambling plenty come back. I think they are wrong. The bottom line is they are getting desperate. A real chance they will do more harm than good. They and you and me don't know how many like revs they will lose. That's the decider.
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Rico it's possible to pay no PC just 2% commission and pay 100k in commission and make 40k profit bottom line. Now they are going to take a chunk of that.
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I do not pay PC, my turnover is high, and my losses on markets are minimal. Liquidity will suffer again!
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"I do not pay PC, my turnover is high" You must back a lot of losers surely ?
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howard...
they KNOW the numbers... we don't... my guess (and it is only a guess) is that they have calculated it won't do any harm... like all 'changes' time will tell if it was the right call or not... but as far as i am concerned they have done the right thing... they should have done it years ago imv... but as i said earlier i could be wrong (and so could they). |
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the only obv diff i can see if the acc weekly charges are still relevant are..
if last 52 weeks p&l is under £25,000 = no PC if last 52 weeks p&l is between £25,000 > £100,000 its 20% PC if your charges are under 20% if last 52 weeks p&l is over £100.000 its 40% PC if your charges are under 40%. |
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they know the past numbers. we and they don't know future numbers. Think WBX knew something we didn't ?
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we could do with revs to give us some numbers which of course he may not wish to do. Total turnover the last year. Commission paid. Profit.
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howard...
they can only use past numbers and run models on what they think will be future numbers... like i say they haven't done this and they think it will make liquidity disappear... time will tell. |
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Revs - I do think you've got the wrong end of the stick, somewhere.
My (incorrect) initial assumption was based on a massively out of date profitability figure that was required to hit the PC threshold to begin with. As Rico says, I don't see how you cannot be paying PC on £50k a year at 2% if your losses are minimal. Turnover's largely irrelevant. It's all about P/L. |
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And charges (which will be linked to your commission paid and commission generated)
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if last 52 weeks p&l is between £25,000 > £100,000 its 20% PC if your charges are under 20%
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- charges being 2% commission i presume Mr.Hunt ? |
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ah...
Latalomne answers my Q... thanx. |
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maybe I'm reading it wrong but he seems to say he hardly backs a loser makes 10's of thousands and pays no PC. Even stewy wouldn't come up with that.
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"they can only use past numbers and run models on what they think will be future numbers". Their big problem is this exchange and the users is new territory. There's no history of other firms having the same problem. As I say it's a desperate move. Things are going down the pan we better twist. You think or hope they know what they are doing. We aren't going to agree on this we just have to wait and see how it plays out.
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Affordability checks are the main driver of liquidity decline
I'm surprised BF are bothering with this, they have bigger fish to fry these days. There might be a few ex winners who've been affordability checked that decide to have another crack - send in the documents or whatever to get their accounts reinstated but most of these were on other people's accounts anyway. This is good for small to medium consistent winners who've stayed on their accounts and won more than 250k lifetime |
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We aren't going to agree on this we just have to wait and see how it plays out.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- we eventually agree howard. |