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Andrews 2023 Lay Thread

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Replies: 1,054
By:
tanglefoot
When: 14 Feb 23 15:35
Thanks Andrew, I know the problem was the MCAS system that was to prevented a stall,but ended up forcing the nose down without the pilots input,not sure if the pilots can now override the MCAS if there is a problem in future.
By:
Andrew.in.Sweden
When: 14 Feb 23 16:21
Good afternoon Guys,

Laurie

Laugh @ Flightline (surely not medication Wink)

There are several ways to determine the aircraft type you could be flying on in future, some airlines actually state it on their web-site, reservation or even boarding cards. You can also use www.flightradar24.com (you may have to subscribe) by adding a flight number, but whichever method you use, check again on the day as airlines can change aircraft types at short notice for varying reasons. If you are concerned, send me your details on WhatsApp and i can let you know. To be fair to Ryanair, they have a good safety record, better than some national airlines. I used to fly with them occasionally from Skavsta (100 kms from Linköping) to Stansted and Majorca/Malta, but they don't use that airport now. Cheap as chips, just take your own refreshments etc and don't use the meal tables without using wet-wipes.

Shane

LaughLaugh Don't you start, one troll is enough

As for nap selections, yes, both hopeless this month, but still only halfway through the month. Good luck.

Tanglefoot

Pilots can override the MACS now.

The system per se was actually a 'quick fix' as the new engine location impacted handling, and it was a sole sensor that instigated the 2 accidents. Over 3 years ago the FAA issued an AD for modifications to the flight control system.
By:
brigust1
When: 14 Feb 23 17:14
Andrew I was actually just reading about that subject when I checked the forum. It was fresh in my mind. I will look in future at the aircraft. What registration number should I be looking out for?
By:
Trusty
When: 16 Feb 23 11:42
Good card today at Sandown.

In the 3.35 I cannot see Givega giving 12lb to Immortal. Defeat accepted FTO when behind Authorised Speed, who nearly uprooted the last but De Boinville had already given up. A while since his last run and already had a wind op and tongue tie added. Feels better to back Immortal than lay Givega as only 3 in the race. Currently 2.14 on here.

GL
By:
Andrew.in.Sweden
When: 16 Feb 23 13:27
Good 'sunny' afternoon Guys,

A balmy 11c here Happy

Trusty

Thanks, and good luck with your back selection Immortal, i also like him, in fact it was a toss between him and Flann (Leicester 3.45) for my nap in the comp.

I'm tempted to lay Quel Destin (Sandown 1.50). Easily the best of these over hurdles, but a very much an in-and-out performer. Only had one to beat (who hasn't won for over 3 years) when Goshen threw in the towel LTO. He was gifted an almost all the way lead then, but i doubt he will be afforded that luxury this afternoon.

Good luck and have a nice Thursday all.

Laurie

I can reply later as i'm up to my armpits in work, but don't be overly concerned. I don't want to be seen as a scaremonger, as i intimated to Tanglefoot, but i know a few GB engineers in Boeing (a couple i've worked with before) who are working on the MAX variants today and they share my concerns. When i'm circa 41,000 ft above ground, i want 99.9% safety, not 99% Wink
By:
stewarts rise
When: 16 Feb 23 13:55
Hope you layed it Andrew, nice reasoning.
By:
Shanelee1966
When: 16 Feb 23 15:11
I`m convinced today`s the day my luck changes.
Hard going so far this month on all fronts.
If you offered 1/4 tomorrow being Friday, i`d think twice.

Gone fairly heavy on overs in Roma match later.
By:
Trusty
When: 16 Feb 23 15:44
Got that wrong but at least kept loses smaller, still profits are whats required!
By:
Andrew.in.Sweden
When: 17 Feb 23 11:47
Lay Post

Kelso 3.05 - Elvis Mail

A 9 year-old Great Pretender gelding trained by Nick Alexander in Perth and Kinross.

Dam was unraced, 6 offspring with, all winners bar one, Elvis Mail the best of them.

A reasonable hurdler, highest rating 138, slightly higher over fences on 140.

Ran well enough LTO finishing 3rd in the Sky Bet Premier Handicap, but 3 of his rivals went out at the last and penultimate fences.

Dropping in trip this afternoon (did win over a furlong shorter) and bar one race in 2018, all wins were on going with soft in the description. Unlikely to be this afternoon.

Prone to jumping errors, although only fallen once.

A small field of 4, but a trappy handicap and it wouldn't be a surprise to see his stablemate win.

Obviously a risky lay selection, but i'm comfortable with it.

Lay @ 2.90

Good luck all.
17-Feb-23
10:39:46    15:05 Kelso
Elvis Mail - 2m5f Hcap Chs
Betfair Bet ID 1:296520646909 | Matched: 17-Feb-23 10:48:43    Lay    2.90    50.00    --    95.00
50.00
Matched
By:
Andrew.in.Sweden
When: 17 Feb 23 11:59
Good afternoon Guys,

A busy Bee here, so more later maybe.

Stewarts Rise

Thanks, yes i layed Quel Destin (3.95) but only for a small win. He wasn't fluent 2 out, but i don't think it made a difference

Shane

We all go through poor runs, but your luck will return. I picked up a bit with 5 winners in a row up to yesterday, but i chose the wrong one between Immortal and Flann (won at 11/10). Still got work to do and i don't really fancy anything today.

Trusty

Unlucky, GM had a form line of course, and to be fair the winner looked good on debut, but i also fancied Immortal. May win a decent handicap one day.

Good luck and have a nice Friday all.
By:
Andrew.in.Sweden
When: 17 Feb 23 15:00
NR in the lay selection race.

RF 11.1% consequently so £50/£79
By:
PHS
When: 17 Feb 23 15:03
You still wanna take the risk with only 2 opponents? I've traded out.
By:
paulmul
When: 17 Feb 23 15:14
Nice one Andrew
By:
GLASGOWCALLING
When: 17 Feb 23 15:16
Wink
By:
Mr_Spreadsheet
When: 17 Feb 23 15:18
well done Andrew
By:
Brian
When: 17 Feb 23 15:20
Well done Andrew
By:
PHS
When: 17 Feb 23 15:43
WD AndrewWink
By:
Trusty
When: 17 Feb 23 19:10
Nice lay Andrew, always nice to lay last of 3 runners!

I have to lay Shiskin tomorrow, currently 3.2 favourite on here and some decent sums traded already but on the stats Henderson has tried to win this race 9 times in the last 10 years and only managed 2 places, similarly 13 9yr olds have taken their chance with only 3 having placed. Once the place market has developed I am going to lay him PLACE as well because I just cannot see Boinville even trying if he has no chance of winning. The extra distance is also an unknown as is the ground which although he has won on good, it is to a much lower rating and who knows if he will let himself down on it now older. All in all, despite being a fantastic horse and being highest rated, there are too many unknowns to back him tomorrow.

GL
By:
The Dragon
When: 18 Feb 23 08:23
I like Pic Dorhy Trusty and I agree with your analysis re Shishkin- I have backed accordingly.
By:
TheAnorak
When: 18 Feb 23 10:03
Morning All,

Having made a case for laying Bo Zenith on his UK debut (last page of the 2022 thread), when he started 4/11 and finished 27L behind I Have A Voice, it's a surprise to find him being backed in the Haydock 1:30 to reverse that form. I struggle to see any reason to believe he can find enough to win this - if Sandown had been his only run (i.e no win in France) he'd surely be long odds today.

I'm not a great fan of Afadil either - his win at Musselburgh last time saw the first five home covered by four lengths and they can't all be that good. The fourth that day came into the race rated 105 and has since been beaten out of sight in a handicap off 106. Two runs right handed for Afadil and he has shown a tendency to shift right, so possibly not going to be suited by Haydock.

Overall this looks a pretty ordinary field for a £25k race and betting options would be lay the two shorties, Afadil and Bo Zenith, at a combined odds on. Or punt I Have A Voice each way as he'll surely be hard to keep out of the frame unless some of these show marked improvement.
By:
ashleigh
When: 18 Feb 23 10:13
TheAnorak, what is the form of Punta Del Este runs  worth?
By:
TheAnorak
When: 18 Feb 23 10:26
Not a lot really. The horse that finished second when he won was given a mark equivalent to 114 UK for that run. And he subsequently changed hands after finishing second in a claiming hurdle, also at Cagnes Sur Mer, for 17,333 euros.

The third and fourth behind Punte Del Este appear to have boosted the form by filling the places in a Listed race. But a Listed juvenile hurdle at Cagnes Sur Mer would be a long way short of the level we'd expect for a race of that class over here. In effect it's just the best of the locals, and the ones sent there becuase they aren't good enough for the Paris tracks.

My best guess would be that Punta Del Este would be worth a UK mark of around 125 at best. So I hope Darren Yates hasn't laid out too much cash on this one - unless of course I'm totally wrong about the horse!
By:
ashleigh
When: 18 Feb 23 11:01
Thanks, drifting badly in the market.
By:
Trusty
When: 18 Feb 23 11:59
I haven't place laid Shiskin because it is 1.85 versus 3.05 to win where as Fakir is 1.71 versus 3.25. I was expecting to lay Shiskin at around 1.60 to place. A very strange market imo.
By:
Andrew.in.Sweden
When: 18 Feb 23 12:43
Good afternoon Guys,

München city centre awash with police for the 3 day security conference that ends tomorrow. A zillion attendees from around the world, but it appears my invitation got lost in the post Wink. I don't know how many UK representatives are there, but the Secretary of State for security, Ben Wallace is. To be honest i'm not interested anyway, now if it was aerospace security, that's a different matter.

I'm actually working, albeit only for a few hours (not a regular thing by any means) so no lengthy thoughts for the moment at least.

Many thanks for the posts, yesterday and today, much appreciated. It's always interesting to read other opinions, particularly when there is reasoning. Good luck with the selections.

My lay selection Elvis Mail (7/4) finished last of the 3 runner field, beaten over 16L, i thought he was beaten off the bend before the penultimate fence. The winner did it well, making all and conceding weight. I will update the PL status later.

Good racing today although i haven't had chance to review the RP cards in detail so much although i knew Shishkin was running. Prior to Constitution Hill arriving on the scene he was my favourite NH horse and i won a few bob on him, but i will not be backing or laying him today. I think it's a race best watched although probably more of a lay than a back bet, but if anyone can revive the horse, Nicky can (think Sprinter Sacre).

It could actually be a good day for the trainer and Nico at Ascot, but whatever wins, i hope their shortie Bold Endeavour (1.50) does as i backed earlier at 1.60 and he is my nap in the competition. Shorter odds now and i feel closer to his eventual SP.

I was hoping there would be more support for I Like To Move It (Wincanton 3.12) as he would certainly have been a PL lay selection given shorter odds (i would have been happy at 3.60) but it appears this is unlikely. He finished behind his 2 primary rivals when favourite LTO and there didn't appear to be any excuses, although maybe the trip had a hand in it. I wouldn't be lumping on the fav First Street at 11/8, although that's not to say he will not win, but he or Knappers Hill could have too much pace for the NTD runner.

Maybe more later.

Good luck and have a nice Saturday all.
By:
Hayden
When: 18 Feb 23 12:58
Not such a strange market in my view Trusty , both Shiskin prices are due to a profile of not certain to run a solid race but obviously with the book form to win doing handsprings , whereas Fakir is seen as virtually certain to run to his mark , so seen as a more place proposition but his win chances are related more as to how much ability Shiskin has retained.

Perfect example of an exchange race able to demonstrate true odds due to the separate win & place markets & befitting the horse profile as opposed to bookmakers having to offer either 1/4 or 1/5th every race whatever the shape or profile of the race , that's why we love bad e/way races with bookmakers.

Best of luck today  Happy
By:
punchestown
When: 18 Feb 23 14:48
First 2 favs ran very free in the first 2 races at Ascot for Nico who could not get either of them to drop the bridle until it was too late unfortunately including your fancy AIS,would be nice to see him (NDB) occasionally pull one out of the fire...
By:
punchestown
When: 18 Feb 23 14:52
You know it's the best system ever for a jockey to get a winner after a bit of stick on here,stand by for a barnstorming ride of the season on Shiskin...Laugh
By:
punchestown
When: 18 Feb 23 15:42
Like a dream....Laugh
By:
The Dragon
When: 18 Feb 23 15:43
oooppsSad
By:
Lampus
When: 18 Feb 23 15:44
System  HappyHappy
By:
Andrew.in.Sweden
When: 19 Feb 23 10:04
Good morning Guys,

Thanks to all for the posts.

Whatever anyone thinks of Nicky Henderson there's no doubting he's adept at bringing a 'sick-bed' horse back to life, Sprinter Sacre and Shishkin being a couple of recent examples, and in bygone years was nursemaid to the triple CH winner See You Then who was very lightly raced due to tendon issues.

It appears Shishkin, my favourite NH horse at one time has regained his brilliance, but pre-race you needed a leap of faith to back him even though he's only been beaten once when finishing a race, and is a Supreme and Arkle winner after all. As mentioned yesterday, i thought it was a race to watch, but after shouting him home, my first thought was 'why didn't i play'. Hindsight is wonderful.

As for a Gold Cup bid, no way. With Allaho out and not a particularly strong field on the day, the Ryanair has to be the sensible choice at least. I assume there are no extra charges after the 48 hour declaration stage. Wink 

One i did back was Bold Endeavour (albeit not significantly) and rounding the final bend i thought he was the likely winner, but Oscar Elite proved far too good in the end. He was the class horse and had been running against the likes of L'Homme Presse and Ahoy Senor although had lost his form in recent runs. Irrespective of the result, the field was disappointing for an Ascot G2; the Reynoldstown has lost some of its standing compared to days when it was won by the ill-fated Killiney, Lanzarote, Little Owl and One Man to name a few. Either that, or i should refrain from being too nostalgic over a Sunday morning coffee.

One i swerved for a PL lay was I Like To Move it, who i got hopelessly wrong and apart from Shishkin was the most impressive winner of the day and in a decent time. I feel Bryony had a hand in the latter setting too fast a pace that benefited the winner, but a good performance nevertheless. It will be interesting to see which Cheltenham race he runs in, although i doubt it will be the CH.

An overall losing day for me, but only double figures in the end. I was working (i use the term loosely) in the office until the Shishkin race then went to Kennedys where many Bayern München supporters were consoling themselves. They lost 3-2, a result that pleased my German work colleague who supports Union Berlin who could go top if they win this afternoon.

Of course the best football result of the day was my lot getting a draw with a late penalty at Sunderland, 11 games undefeated now. A surprising stat from this game is Bristol City had played 67 games without a getting a penalty, surely a record ?

On to this afternoon, a decent card at Newbury for a Sunday, but its Musselburgh (2.20) where i feel there is a lay in Duke Of Deception. A small field of 3, but a tricky handicap i see as 6/4, 7/4 and 2/1. Each one a maiden under rules, no problem with a sharp track for all, but DOD doesn't look a natural over fences, is conceding a fair bit of weight and is it soft enough. Odds of 2.8 are short enough.

Over at Punchestown the Apples Jade listed race looks interesting and a small W/3TBP on Shecouldbeanything could pay out at decent odds. She was unbeaten in 3 prior to her run in the G2 Moscow Flyer LTO, but threw away any chance by poor hurdling. Going back up in trip may help in this context and she looked good winning over a furlong shorter in her penultimate run, form that has been franked by the runner-up. A tentative selection in a decent field.

I will look in again later, liquidity is poor anyway.

Good luck and have a nice Sunday all.

Punchestown

Unlucky, this is surely the 'Holy Grail' system. Wink
By:
brigust1
When: 19 Feb 23 12:15
Hi Andrew. An aerospace question for you. Have you ever seen the film Passengers? The main characters are in a spacecraft travelling at X miles an hour in space and go out for a space walk. Is that possible? I would have thought they would have been blown away. No horseracing I know.
By:
Andrew.in.Sweden
When: 19 Feb 23 12:22
Afternoon Laurie,

I haven't seen the film, so i don't know the details, but i assume they had Oxygen packs. Many astronauts have walked in space, but are generally tethered to the craft, although a USA one wasn't once (he had a jet pack).
By:
brigust1
When: 19 Feb 23 12:29
Thank you Andrew. Even if the craft is travelling at many, many hundreds of miles an hour if they are tethered to the craft with a line it doesn't matter?
By:
Trusty
When: 19 Feb 23 12:51
Typical Henderson Saturday afternoon to be fair. 8 runners, 3 favs on the card at Ascot evs, 4/9 and 11/8 all beaten but Shiskin who arguably had the most question marks absolutely skates in. Good early money on Friday, I should have taken more attention as 7 Barrows waded in.
By:
punchestown
When: 19 Feb 23 19:24
Andrew indeed,I knew I was putting my hand out to be slapped virtually (didn't lay it) by my comments on the opening 2 NJH favs on the day but I stand by them,normal service was resumed on the hotpot fav in the Bumper ...
By:
punchestown
When: 19 Feb 23 20:02
*but my comments*
By:
Andrew.in.Sweden
When: 19 Feb 23 21:41
Good evening Guys,

Trusty/Punchestown

Thanks for the posts. Shishkin aside, NDB hasn't had a good week, but conversely from 9th to 12th he rode 6 successive winners. Mind you, he was beaten on 4 short price favourites thereafter.

Mixed results from my early afternoon post, the lay selection winning (2/1) and the EW finishing 2nd (7/1) to at least give a return.

Laurie

Any spacecraft will be travelling much faster than several hundred miles an hour, take the international space station as an example, it travels around 17,500 mph.

I'm not in the space industry although i don't need to be to answer your question, much of it is basic physics. You questioned if it's possible for occupants of a craft to perform a spacewalk and the answer is probably yes, but it depends on several factors. I haven't seen the film you mentioned, but let's assume it's a craft in earth orbit and not a rocket travelling to outer space for example.

Take a hypothetical situation, you are in a commercial airliner at 39,000 ft and decide to jump out (this is not possible of course). The moment you step out of the aircraft, you are travelling at the same velocity as the craft, but the earths' gravitational pull is such you would plummet in a downward descent until terminal velocity is reached. Space is different.

Let's assume the passengers are in a satellite orbiting the earth and they decide to do a space walk, all wearing suits with oxygen packs and safety tethers. The craft is travelling at 17,500 mph, the door opens and the passengers step out. They will be travelling at the same speed as the satellite, but will not fall, as the further away from earth you are, the less the gravitational pull. Having said this, it's never zero in space and gravity even keeps our moon in orbit.

There is no atmosphere (as such) no wind, no drag etc. Astronauts perform spacewalks during missions for varying reasons and you may have seen this on TV broadcasts. Of course they couldn't stay out for lengthy periods and if they were not tethered to the craft (or had jet packs) could float away into space. In this case, the oxygen would eventually finish and they would die, but remain in space for a considerable time, slowly descending in orbit due to no power source, before gravity eventually took over and they were burnt up in the upper atmosphere falling back to earth, as space 'waste' does for example.

As an aside, Saab/Ericsson have a space division in Göteborg, West Sweden. I've been there many times when i worked in the Linköping complex as they were partly involved with the Erieye radar system installed on the aircraft in my profile photo, although i wasn't allowed in the space facility (sadly).
By:
brigust1
When: 19 Feb 23 23:42
Brilliant explanation Andrew. I just thought it odd they could just float out alongside the spaceship, it seems weird. I thought because they stepped out of the ship, which was driven by huge engines it would continue on while they remained in place. A bit like falling out of a moving car. Anyway if you do get to see the film you will see what I mean. Apart from that point I thought the concept was original and possible, one day.
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