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IF AIDEN IS A GOD, HOW COME HIS SONS CAN WIN GROUP1S STRAIGHT AWAY
IF AIDEN IS A GOD, HOW COME HIS SONS CAN WIN GROUP1S STRAIGHT AWAY
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henry cecil didnt have to put 6 horses in groups1 to know which was the best, henry knew before they even ran if he had a champion, ( re frankel), thats a mark of a born genious
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lot of sense in what someone said earlier,when he,s no standout run them all on their merits and rather getting in each other,s way like they used to, however the race unfolds,won from the front,back off whatever pace their in their with a fighting chance
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tbf elisjohn i don't think Cecil would have had 6 horses good enough to enter at any one distance , let alone all have a decent chance like Aiden.
The depth of quality in the Aiden yard has never been equalled and doubt it ever will be. Had Cecil had trained Aiden's 8 runners in this years Derby i very much doubt he'd have won the race simply because the winner wouldn't have been in the race. |
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Hayden, That's the biggest piece of tosh I've read on in for a long time. If Cecil had those 8 horses he would of found a race for each of them.
There's a big difference between Cecil and AOB if he thought a maiden could win a Derby, he wouldn't off booked a Jockey who hadn't won a race since last October, there's noway AOB thought that was even in his top 3 on the day. |
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AOB's sons have been at the forefront of AOB's horse training school of excellence from a very young age. And, with the right ammunition eg with the offsprings of Galileo, astute placement of horses and a bit of luck an early Gp1 jackpot could be landed by AOB's sons given AOB/Coolmore/Galileo are the dominant force in horse racing.
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Certainly didn't expect anyone to agree with my last post mainly as the forum is too nostalgic to entertain that sort of contrasting opinion.
Agree Cecil would have found a race for all 8 of them but then again so will Aiden , and subject to the race result being the same without the winner then the statement that Aiden won the Derby whereas Cecil wouldn't have still stands. As long as it stays civil though it's good to have debate even with subjects that can never be proven and i'm sure we will all stick to our original view at the end of this thread whatever the debated points. Good luck all  |
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An Epsom Derby winner by Galileo is an advert for Galileo even with an outsider. It merely means an association with Galileo could produce an Epsom Derby winner; the input of his trainer is something else.
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will be interesting when galileo is no more..none of their other stallions at the moment suggests they
can hold a light to him |
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Cecil is light years ahead of the Ballydoyle shower. They couldn't train pigs to eat apples ffs.
They are the worst thing to happen to horse racing this century. And you don't have to believe me. Just look at the 135 and upwards Timeform list. AOB Hawk Wing. (who he actually screwed up) HRAC Frankel, Reference Point, Old Vic, Slip Anchor, Kris and Royal Anthem. And don't forget Henry was on a level playing field not the domination Ballydoyle has. |
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Wheree is workrider ... When the WHOLE FORUM seems to be making the same points about COOLMORE/Ballydoyle and AIDAN O'BRIEN ...
- and NOT just me - as in workrider's continually erroneous, and mistaken, 'one dimensional' vendetta against me. ----------- Great THREAD TITLE IF AIDEN IS A GOD, HOW COME HIS SONS CAN WIN GROUP1S STRAIGHT AWAY ----------------- Great OPENING POST... elisjohn 05 Jul 20 21:49 if they can win group1s in their first year its simply the horses nothing to do with training them, gods are vincent, henry and fabre -------------- |
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also the derby winner was an industry price of 25 and 36 on here so
hardly a complete no hoper..i backed it as a saver purely on the stallion factor |
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Coolmore is more dominant in horse racing/breeding than China politically and economically in the world. What'd happen to Coolmore when the "boys" are no longer present? Galileo is no spring chicken either.
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The horses would still exist. They would be trained by a multitude of trainers instead of this useless bunch.
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My best wishes go to Aiden O'Brien and his wonderful team. Long may their success continue.
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He realises how lucky he is, he mentions it in practically every interview! He is reaping the rewards of the seeds sown by Vincent O`Brien.
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Its the water that the horses drink in Tipperary ,Willie Mullins is seen every day getting water from the pump just outside Ballydoyle .i drank a glass of the miracle water one day and backed winners for a full month.You can not beat the water that comes from the spring under the pump outside Ballydoyle, one glass and all your wishes come true.
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IF AIDEN IS A GOD, HOW COME HIS SONS CAN WIN GROUP1S STRAIGHT AWAY?Because they are the sons of a god = Jesus
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Being able to run this number of horses allows AOB to operate several tactics in one race and unfortunately neither the other trainers or jockeys ever seem prepared for this. Not one of the jockeys on the fancied horses chased Serpentine, all sat round in a group waiting for him to come back. Whilst I agree with other comments that we don't seem to have jockeys who can follow the clock in their heads, surely trainers should know enough about Coolmore pedigrees to know that one or two of Saturday's runners were stoutly bred and likely to stay. You wouldn't think so if you watched the race!
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its whats happening now if you cant make money betting aidens then maybe time to try leaving alone all the races he has runners in , i dont back m johnstons, be lucky if i back 1 or 2 a year has more winners than anyone but the transport buisness makes a million so has more runners than anyone else
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elisjohn
Date Joined: 15 Jun 03 Add contact | Send message 06 Jul 20 16:00Joined: 15 Jun 03 | Topic/replies: 13,472 | Blogger: elisjohn's blog henry cecil didnt have to put 6 horses in groups1 to know which was the best, henry knew before they even ran if he had a champion, ( re frankel), thats a mark of a born genious So do you think he dosent know ? he knows alright, if he had declared the one ryan on it 7/4 fav it was 25/1 why do you really think he declares 6 he learnt from the master mullings just following another genius who worked out how to fool bookmakers and most punters and to this day most punters still fooled but not all punters its not hard to work it out why they multiple declare, they love a price |
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As Ger Lyons said it's one man against a football team
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Unlike the old days when Cecil/Cumani/Dunlop and Stoute (who's still training) I think AOB/Coolmore treat their horse racing operation purely as a business just like a multinational retailer having multiple but almost identical products on the market; dominate the market increases tone's share, and probably the chance of success. At the moment they are reaping just reward for AOB/Coolmore.
It's high time jockeys ride with more professionalism as their integrity post Epsom Derby 2020 is at stake and under scrutiny like no other time. What happened at Epsom was pathetic and could bring their profession into disrepute. |
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I think older trainers were more into the horse whereas with coolmore it is a production line to make stallions.
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whatever their operation, they are desperate for a real champion racehorse on the track .
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know all07 Jul 20 13:17Joined: 13 Dec 03 | Topic/replies: 2,112 | Blogger: know all's blog
elisjohn Date Joined: 15 Jun 03 Add contact | Send message 06 Jul 20 16:00Joined: 15 Jun 03 | Topic/replies: 13,472 | Blogger: elisjohn's blog henry cecil didnt have to put 6 horses in groups1 to know which was the best, henry knew before they even ran if he had a champion, ( re frankel), thats a mark of a born genious So do you think he dosent know ? he knows alright, if he had declared the one ryan on it 7/4 fav it was 25/1 why do you really think he declares 6 he learnt from the master mullings just following another genius who worked out how to fool bookmakers and most punters and to this day most punters still fooled but not all punters its not hard to work it out why they multiple declare, they love a price So you're saying they do it to fool bookmakers and punters Ryan could you not win the Derby so I can fool the bookmakers |
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And the obsequious "professional" but sycophantic racing journalists and pundits esp those at the Racing Post are unwilling to exercise the professionalism appropriately for fear of rocking the applecart and gravy train they feed from.
Which plonker journalist at the Racing Post stated the Derby need not to be at Epsom? For his info Epsom is the only track with its unique undulations, a wide sweeping left turn culminating in a sharp uphill finish. |
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So you're saying they do it to fool bookmakers and punters
fool most of you all the time, not all , yes its a little game the icing on the cake, a price and horse still worth millions in breeding , put it down to learning something new every day lol |
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Serpentine (Morning price: 25/1 20/1 22/1 25/1 28/1 25/1 22/1)
(Ring price: 22/1 20/1 18/1 22/1 25/1 22/1 25/1 28/1 25/1) SP 25/1 A small bet from the coolmore operation (10 grand eachway) surely would of moved it  |
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I don't think the betting side is the reason for their crass operation. I know Coolmore are bookies largely but the breeding operation is huge.
Do they want a champion? They certainly don't look like they do. Hawk Wing and Australia could have been champions but they were completely s crewed up. I honestly believe if the horses they train were spread around other trainers the results would be massively different. And I think history backs that up. |
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i follow the big race ante post markets quite closely, and during the week , maybe even thurs / friday there was quite a move for the horse, i dont remember exactly now but like 33s into 20s odd , and made me wonder about him, but im really a form man and with my red biro serendipity was one of the 1st i crossed off
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thats how bad these classics are for me now even forgot this years derby winner name serpentine not serendipity
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I think a lot more people are now betting on O'Brien's 'outsiders' due to past results in big races. I bet the winner and third purely because I didn't have an opinion on the other two and they were too short for a fun bet. Three people I know bet all his gorses in the Derby on the assumption that one of them would win. I think the days are long gone when people just bet on the supposed number one fancy, win or lose. As an aside as much as I'm not a Moore fan I do have some sympathy for him in that it does seem he's usually 'guided' by the trainer on which one he should ride, whereas when Heffernan has the no.1 choice he always makes sure to let everyone know he made the choice himself.
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any person that believes AOB is not one of the best trainers ever is a proper fool.
arguing this is just pure nonsense |
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i dont think anyone disputes that hes not a great trainer, but to me and many others we dont think hes a cecil , vincent or even fabre.
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He is a great trainer, but would Stoutes, Gosden, Cecil Fabre etc do worse than Aiden in that position.
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Well I must be a proper fool because I don't think he is a good trainer. He gets horses beaten than should not be beaten. He places them like a shotgun and runs them continually over the wrong distance. I am convinced had many of our top trainers had the opportunity to race these horses they would get beaten less, be better placed and achieve more.
Of course he may not be in place to achieve what every other trainer tries to achieve so I may me judging him when he is achieving everything his bosses want him to achieve. |
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Stoute Fabre wouldn't of ruined Frankel Aidan most definitely would.
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He definitely ruined Hawk Wing imho
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For what it's worth, I don't think those other great trainers, Cecil,stoute,fabre would have won as many top races as aob.
Remember he does it year in ,year out,that's why he gets so much good material to work with. It's all performance related,he must always deliver for his demanding masters, |
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if a "small trainer " has a half decent one amongsts his average lot its likely he will know , what if you have 20 -30 plus above average bred in the purple decent ones ? you cant knock the bollax out of them on the gallops as you will burn them out for future group races they have to be looked after , they dont know for sure which is their best especially with fast improving bred in the purple types like the derby winner, and the 3rd cost over 3 million and had had just 2 or 3 races and was 100/1 in the morning betting and had any amount of improvement to come .
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