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George's Juvenile Hurdler + / - Thread

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Replies: 442
By:
s.kenbo
When: 11 Nov 19 18:26
Well done, George, and congratulations on last weeks stonker too. Excellent as always. Cool
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 11 Nov 19 19:13
Cheers hkr and sk.

There are a couple of 3YOs running in the closing handicap at Hereford tomorrow, but neither are qualifiers on my dodgy Flat notebook to juvenile hurdling system!

I do have a couple of qualifiers in the Fairyhouse juvenile hurdle, but given they had to call today's scheduled meeting off, presumably it's going to be very testing if it gets the go ahead tomorrow (inspection 7.30).
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 12 Nov 19 08:55
Guinevere, 1pt EW @ 28-1, 12.25 Fairyhouse

I have two qualifiers, the short-priced fav Cerberus and Guinevere.

Cerebus is likely to prove hard to beat given the form of his hurdling debut neck-second at Punchestown to stablemate A Wave Of The Sea was boosted when the winner came out and bolted up under a penalty at Down Royal. Cerebus had a few of today's rivals behind him that day, including Kid Curry and Donnernstrings.

Guinevere, who was the first selection on this thread, was sent off a well backed 9-2 shot on her hurdling debut at Galway, having been 16-1 when selected earlier that morning. Unfortunately she didn't see the trip out, weakening out of it to finish a well held 5th (over 30 lengths behind the third Instant Return, who reopposes here), when a less than fluent round of jumping didn't help her cause.

Severus Alexander, who wasn't dismissed at 8-1 in the betting in the same race, was brought down at the first. He has a 7lb claimer on today, which may help in the conditions.

Guinevere's run last month on the Flat over a mile on heavy ground at Gowran Park when a strong finishing second had suggested she was in need of further, at least on the level, and looking at her previous form, her optimum trip isn't clear but on the evidence of the Galway run she certainly has her stamina to prove under today's testing conditions.

Of those with an official Flat rating, Red Gerry comes out top on 84, and is of obvious interest coming from the Noel Meade stable. Guinevere is rated 72 on the level and when her 7lb sex allowance is taken into account, comes out second top on adjusted figures, 2lb ahead of Malbas who is rated 77.

I'm tentatively going to give Guinevere another chance with that initial hurdling experience behind her, particularly as the strong market support that day suggested better had been expected.
By:
sageform
When: 12 Nov 19 09:00
Sound logic at that price. All I would say is that a mile on the flat is not usually enough to stay 2 miles over hurdles these days when they usually go a good gallop.
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 12 Nov 19 09:07
sageform, the way she shaped at Gowran and being by Camelot, one would be quite optimistic about her staying two miles over hurdles, but obviously there's now a query about that given she didn't seem to stay at Galway.

At least the Gowran run would suggest she handles heavy ground perfectly well.

It may be she'll be one for handicaps now, but happy to chance her again at the prices.
By:
TheAnorak
When: 12 Nov 19 12:17
George,

Excellent thread and well done sticking with the longshots. I'd be interested to know if a horse called Sea Art is on your list. He won a 1m 5f handicap at Bath off 57 for William Knight. My trainer and I thought we might be able to buy him for around ten grand for a syndicate he runs, at Nmkt sales a fortnight ago, but sat there amazed as he made 28,000 gns, presumably to go to J Quinn as it was knocked down to his brother.
By:
madhatters
When: 12 Nov 19 12:32
WD GB
Winner cruised it
Notebook picking out the contenders well
Good one yester too
By:
hologon
When: 12 Nov 19 12:39
well done sir
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 12 Nov 19 13:00
Thanks for the kind words.

I think being ridden with a bit more restraint helped today and that showed as she's turned around a 30 length deficit with Instant Return. However, having travelled nicely into it, the stamina seemed to fail her again in the conditions and she was no match for Cerberus, who well and truly franked A Wave Of The Sea's form.
She's still shown enough to suggest she can win one of these, though.

TheAnaorak, I noted him at Salisbury because I thought his effort wanted marking up given how that race panned out. It then took him another 5 runs to win, but that coincided with him being back on easier ground. He's by Born To Sea out of a Montjeu mare, so perhaps he'll prove best on soft ground (albeit he has previously earned a joint-best RPR on good to firm).
So with regards to a potential hurdling career, I'd say he won't fail for lack of stamina and soft ground will be fine for him.
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 12 Nov 19 13:22
Oh dear, just four declared for the juvenile hurdle tomorrow at Bangor and none of them are qualifiers on my dodgy Flat notebook to juvenile hurdler system Sad

Running P/L: +178.1
By:
exactaman
When: 12 Nov 19 13:46
Excellent stuff again George...!!Cool
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 12 Nov 19 13:59
Cheers exactaman

I see Sea Art is a half-brother to Grey Mist, who seems a strong stayer over 2 miles on the Flat
By:
TheAnorak
When: 12 Nov 19 14:07
Thanks for that George - we were interested in him as one to run in staying races at our local tracks, Bath and Salisbury, next year, rather than as a juvenile hurdler.

I wonder if connections will send Guinevere over for the Listed fillies event at Aintree next month.
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 12 Nov 19 14:18
Good shout, Anorak, particularly given the owners, well worth a shot given it's unlikely to be the deepest of races.
By:
Lucky Luciano
When: 13 Nov 19 19:57
George
Proper well done on your selections so far, not got involved myself but find this a really interesting read.
Thanks for sharing
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 13 Nov 19 20:03
Thanks for the kind words, Lucky.

Quite an interesting race tomorrow at Ludlow, and I've done my write up, but the prices have been all over the shop so far for some of the runners, so not sure I'll even have a selection now Sad

There's a Grade 2 Juvenile Hurdle to look forward to at Cheltenham on Saturday.
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 14 Nov 19 08:25
I have two qualifiers, Rowland Ward and Group Stage.

One firm did open up with Rowland Ward twice the price of Group Stage, which was surprising at least on Flat Ratings given Rowland Ward is rated 15lb higher!

Group Stage disappointed on his final two Flat starts, but his previous five length second over 12f to Sapa Inca on soft ground at Newbury, when in receipt of 6lb, looks a lot better now given the winner went on to Listed success and is now rated 20lb higher.

Rowland Ward beat Sapa Inca off level weights back in April, and that form worked out fairly well with the runner-up Beechwood Jude subsequently winning twice. He ran just three more times and on the face of it didn't progress, although he did actually twice record higher RPRs in defeat, including when only seventh of 11 over 12f at Thirsk when wearing first time blinkers, on his final start for Ralph Beckett.

Soft ground is an unknown for Rowland Ward, his win came on officially good ground at Doncaster on a day when the times were on the slow side, but a strong wind half against probably had an impact on that. He did finish runner-up on good to soft on his 2YO debut at Sandown to none other than Too Darn Hot, albeit beaten an easy 7l.

Of the others, Gavrocheka has been bought by JP McManus after winning a 12f French bumper and has joined Philip Hobbs. Who knows, but she gets the 7lb fillies allowance and it will be interesting to see how she goes in the betting close to the off.

Arctic Snow made his debut in the Chepstow juvenile hurdle that produced subsequent Listed-placed Nordano, and winners Sir Psycho and Catch The Cuban. He was unable to go with the principals once the taps were turned on, and although entitled to improve for the experience, suspect he will need to.
Fluursals also has form behind Sir Psycho, beaten a similar distance by that rival when third on hurdles debut at Huntingdon and she too is entitled to come on for the experience.

Say The Word and Fanforonade were trained by Simon Crisford and John Gosden respectively on the Flat, and interestingly neither of them were tried on the turf. Perhaps the most interesting of the pair is Say The Word, who had the higher Flat rating and is bred to stay well.
There's no obvious reason why he shouldn't handle turf given he's by Authorized and a half-brother to Smart Champion, who finished runner-up in the Cesarewitch Trial over 2m2f at Newmarket on his latest start.

Summary: My two qualifiers, Rowland Ward and Group Stage, are now both 7-2, having been available at bigger last night, so I'm happy to pass at the prices.
It's usually against my religion to select a non-notebook horse, but I'm intrigued enough by Say The Word to risk 1pt EW at the prices, even though his pedigree could suggest he'll need a stiffer test in time and there is a query as to why he wasn't tried on turf by his former stable despite being bred for it.

Say The Word, 1pt EW @ 22-1, 3.30 Ludlow
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 14 Nov 19 11:09
I've just remembered about the Racing Post stable tours, and having spent the last half-hour raking through the bins to find last week's edition with Tom George, Say The Word didn't even get a mention Cry
I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing!

I had kept the Philip Hobbs stable tour, and he describes Gavrocheka as a really nice prospect, who's been with his stable for several months, a stocky type who has taken plenty of work and gives every indication of being tough.
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 14 Nov 19 17:42
I hope Fleursals is ok, she came down 2 out when still in the lead.

Of my two notebook horses, Rowland Ward was pulled out on account of the ground, and the other one Group Stage stayed on well up the stands' rail to win at 2-1 ISP.

I decided, having had a close look at all the horses, to take a chance on a non-notebook horse at the prices, who was of a little interest racing on turf for the first time. As it turned out, Say The Word was very well backed close to the off, but in the race itself having held every chance turning into the home straight (traded around 9-4), he was unable to go with the principals when it mattered and faded to 4th.

Running P/L +176.1
By:
stewarts rise
When: 15 Nov 19 11:12
Looks like i've looked in too late as usual, another great winning thread George, have you had a few nice priced winners recently! very well done, what were they and prices please?
By:
stewarts rise
When: 15 Nov 19 11:16
Found it Geyser, well done george!Grin
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 15 Nov 19 17:37
Thank you, stewarts.

Good to see Cheltenham looks like being on tomoz and we've got a Grade 2 Juvenile hurdle to look forward to.
By:
chavman
When: 15 Nov 19 17:43
has your cold turkey been somewhat sated by the offerings from The Graveyard tonight george
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 15 Nov 19 18:27
Chavvers, I think my little interest in the NH game this week has been enough to save me from having to be on suicide watch, and it hasn't been a bad week on that front, or least it hadn't been until I stepped out of my comfort zone and tried to pick a winner without the help of my notebook Cry. I won't be doing that again in a hurry!

Tricky card tonight at Dunners, I thought Colfer Me (6.45) may be worth a small interest at 25-1, with the pony champ sensation taking over in the saddle, despite concerns the horse is better at a mile rather than tonight's 10.5f.
By:
chavman
When: 15 Nov 19 18:35
you are the champ at talking pony if that makes you feel better george
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 15 Nov 19 18:42
Thanks for the kind words, chavvers
By:
chavman
When: 15 Nov 19 18:47
dont mention it mate
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 15 Nov 19 18:48
Colfer Me 11-8 in the run, back to a mile methinks Sad
By:
11kv
When: 15 Nov 19 18:50
Back hi ---lay lo........good pick GEORGE.B  Wink
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 15 Nov 19 19:03
Sounds like a good strategy to have, 11kv Wink
By:
chavman
When: 15 Nov 19 19:05
george has had some fantastically elaborate systems......the most momentous being the one where his selection had 4 runs to win and count on the p+l......groundbreaking really
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 15 Nov 19 19:06
eh?

how many cans of bow you had?
By:
chavman
When: 15 Nov 19 19:08
none george
By:
chavman
When: 15 Nov 19 19:10
ah yes,now i remember...if they won nto they counted on the p+l
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 15 Nov 19 19:11
So let me get this straight, I did a thread where I gave each horse 4 chances?

News to me dude
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 16 Nov 19 08:51
Allmankind, 1pt win @ 11-2, 12.40 Cheltenham

This is straightforward for me in terms of a selection as I've only got the one qualifier and it's Allmankind.

He's currently rated 86 on the Flat, and he made his hurdling debut at Warwick the other day for Dan Skelton with a bit to prove, given his final run for Michael Bell was a poor one, he'd since undergone wind surgery and was reappearing wearing both a hood and tongue strap. As it turned out, he defied market weakness to win as he liked despite having been keen enough.

The opposition didn't look the greatest at Warwick, and his tendency to race keenly could be costly in today's  testing ground, particularly in a much stronger race. However, he did enough at Warwick to suggest he retains all his ability, and as long as he doesn't pull his chance away, hopefully he can be competitive here.

Mick Pastor has a 5lb penalty to contend with on his debut for Paul Nicholls, but looks the one to beat given he brings strong French juvenile form into the race, as the horse he beat on his final French start at Auteuil, has since gone on to Grade 3 and Grade 1 successes.
By:
chavman
When: 16 Nov 19 09:29
gl george
By:
TheAnorak
When: 16 Nov 19 10:13
Some info on Mick Pastor - the Post only show his hurdle win, but he did have one run on the flat, a year ago this weekend. He finished 13th of 17 in a 2-y-old newcomers race over 9F at Fontainebleau. His trainer, Mikael Mescam, isn't a well known name, but he has produced good results from a small stable of horses, with 15 winners and 48 placed from 91 runners over jumps this year, earning over 600,000 euros in prize money - so no mug.

Given his hurdle win showed very quick fluent jumping, combined with proven stamina and ability to handle the ground, I thought he'd be odds on for this. The horse he beat is now rated 163 in France after his Grade 1 win.

But of course, with horses in these colours, who knows what to expect!
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 16 Nov 19 10:35
Cheers chav.

Thanks for the info, Anorak, the profile is suggesting he could turn out to be a formidable opponent. It would be interesting to know how much they paid for him.
By:
Deplasterer
When: 16 Nov 19 11:00
I see Nordano has come in for a bit of support in your race George, placed on flat and ran well in a soft ground listed race lto.
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