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if the horse was a flat horse and had that history it would have been retired of course
as the horse has no sell-on value if it's retired, it's basically going to be waiting around in a field until it dies however you could also make the argument that it's animal endangerment. I think you could easily bring in a rule where owners aren't allowed to race on their horses if there seems a high chance they will collapse on course. given Many Clouds previous history of wobbling after his races, under the new rule he wouldn't be allowed to race anymore. The problem is i'm sure owners don't want to see their horses die either but for them it's also a financial and emotional investment so they are willing to take that risk. |
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I think that Native River is in the Many Clouds mould and will test the favourite.
I had much to thank Many Clouds for after his Mackeson and National wins. |
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If there had been any heart problem after his earlier wobbles I'm sure that he would have been retired.
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but why did he wobble then?
it must have been something to do with the heart? I think the problem is at the moment it seems to be up to the owners. many in that situation would retire the horse, many would ask him to carry on. I think the argument is for animal welfare reasons you could take it out of their hands and basically it would be up to the racing authorities. of course that doesn't preclude the possibility that they might try and race it abroad or something. |
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it isnt up to owners, its the trainer and vets who will decide, so you are saying the bha are better placed to judge than vets
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and he didnt wobble today
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The problem is i'm sure owners don't want to see their horses die either but for them it's also a financial and emotional investment so they are willing to take that risk.
the owner needs the money???? |
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and the vast majority of horses cost owners money not make them a profit, so imo you are talking bollix
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Trevor Hemmings
Occupation Businessman Known for Owning Preston North End F.C. Home town London, England Net worth £900m (est.) [1] |
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I rarely post but my god what a way to go out. This race will go down as legend and be spoken for years. It was very similar to the 2000 Champ Chase where EDB under AP got up somehow to beat Direct Route. I'm still numb by it all, the duel and then THAT announcement. Beautiful, Epic and tragic all in about 5 minutes. And what a fitting tribute it would be if Thistlecrack goes onto win the big one in March. RIP Many Clouds, the bravest I've ever seen.
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the owner doesn't need the money perhaps but he still wants to see the horse run which wouldn't be the case if he retired him.
so yes you're right the owners aren't greedy but they are greedy to watch him run. but that isn't really the issue. the issue is whether or not it's safe for him to race. If he's wobbled, then surely that's a sign that there's something untoward with the horse, that might not even be picked up by a vets exam, and it's therefore reasonable to suggest he should be retired. |
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the owner doesnt need the money PERHAPS, come on he does it because he loves the sport. greedy to watch it run.... REALLy
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At the end of the day it's a game humans play with animals the winners are always the humans the animals never gain anything
except a bit of feed and attention, but they take the risk as money is a concept accepted by us all. |
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He could have broken a leg out in the field ,I have had it happen twice.
He went out like a warrior and showed all the qualities that endear horses to humans ,brave animals doing our bidding with grace ,fearlessness and the beauty that only equines have. Sad but there are worse ways to go . |
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"animals never gain anything" ?
How about 'life'? Horses by Presenting, Midnight Legend, Robin Des Champs, et al, would never be born if it wasn't for jump racing. Some people may suggest that would be a 'good thing', but I'm not one of them, and I'd rather have a world with the likes of Red Rum, Desert Orchid, One Man, Edredon Bleu, etc, than without them. |
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The thing is Lewisham you should have posted these concerns after or before Many Clouds won at Aintree earlier in the season.
Today he put up a great performance today and likely died of a heart attack, 11 years ago Best Mate put up his worst performance and died of a heart attack. It is just one of those unfortunate things and if you saw my 14year old retired mare in the field the other day kicking and running about then I believe that she would love to be in a race again. Many Clouds gave me a lot of pleasure over the past few years, I don't think I ever backed him. |
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If I wasa horse, I would rather be a racehorse for Breedingmads bit of feed and attention than the zero feed and attention those horses get in the field opposite me.
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Horses wouldn't stop breeding if we didn't exist and they did.
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Pillock
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I'm sure he loves the sport but that's not the issue.
The issue is what's safe for the horse. If a horse has shown signs of collapse before, then I believe the racing authorities should be able to exercise a power to prevent said horse from racing again. The owners opinion shouldn't really come into it. |
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How many horses break their legs in a field it's probably a smaller figure than people killed by getting killed
in car crashes.It's an excuse that is unfounded show me some figures then I may believe you, but I suspect you are repeating something someone told you and not actual fact. |
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what, because I didn't express those opinions at the time, I'm not allowed to have an opinion now?
Your viewpoint makes no sense. |
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LR who says the owner had any opinion about the horse running today. like mjost owners they liesten to the trainer who works with the horse on a daily basis. like i said if vets say the horse is okaym why would the bha say it isnt?
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Which part of I have had it happen twice do you not understand?
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The bottom line is, people, understandably, find death hard to deal with, and when it inevitably happens, they want to blame, or think of ways it could have been avoided.
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reading some of the above that would seem about right George
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Your opinion is based on what has happened today I don't believe that he wobbled after the Aintree race so the problem seemed to have gone after the wind op.
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well that's true what you say dealer but I doubt the trainer would say to the owner "lets retire this horse"
I did find it a bit curious when the trainer said after the race about the horse would die for them and today he has done so. I don't think that sherwood is anything but broken up by this loss though. The point I'm trying to make is that trainers and owners don't basically retire horses in these sort of cases and perhaps you could make the argument that they should do so. |
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but your wrong trainers and owners retire horses on a weekly basis
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to suggest Sherwood would not have retired the horse because he was selfish and had no thoughts for the horses welfare is just 100% wrong imo
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that's not what i suggested.
I just take the view that owners and trainers (particularly in jump racing) have an aggressive view of this sort of thing, they take the view that these are racehorses, they're there to be raced, they're a tough breed and they can take it, which is fair enough. I just think if you've got a horse that's wobbling and he's not just done it once but he's done it twice, the decision should be taken out of the connections hands. Anyway I'm tired of repeating myself. |
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It's quite obvious that most people would carry on with the game no matter how dangerous it was, I gamble
so I know .I'm just being honest, if it was elephants and horses didn't exist you would still carry on and make excuses if they died, it's not a fair game,but we would never be enslaved in a similar game as humans but because of their inferior intelligence and speed they have become our sport., |
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It's quite obvious that most people would carry on with the game no matter how dangerous it was,
What a nonsense statement, so if 50% of horses were being killed each season, most people would carry on with it, or would even be allowed to? |
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It brought back memories of Persian Punch collapsing at Sandown.
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I know the risk involved I know horses now I just bet on the flat mainly but there is nothing worse than getting a bet up
and knowing the horse that got your bet up died.  |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrLniTEv05c
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One Man, Young Kenny, Gloria Victus, Alverton, Ten Plus, Dunkirk, Best Mate, Forgive N Forget, Golden Cygnet and Dawn Run, just ten names of many of great horses that lost their lives on the racecourse.
I think that's what makes jump racing great, the mix of glory and death, elation and despair, the epitome of life itself! |
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Time may tell, but there is a good chance Many Clouds ran to his highest ever mark today. That he eeked out an extra 8lbs of improvement but it was too much.
What a brave soul he was. |
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I think if you look back at Many Clouds when he won the Grand National you'll see
in this clip he was being pushed too far imo. |
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It's wrong
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