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do human athletes after a race not wobble? seen many of them need assistance after a race or event. should they not run again
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Yes , but I,m sure they go through cardiac investigations to rule anything out
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and do horses not ?
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Not in the depth a human athlete would or if at all
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how do you possibly know what they have tested him for after those races.
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You might have also said to the jockey don't give him a mega hard race ever again
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I'm sure given today's outcome they might have said he was tested. Just to clarify. After all OS mentioned the wind op.
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I remembered I had read an article about horses and sudden death due to cardiovascular problems:
http://www.paulickreport.com/horse-care-category/vet-topics/ask-vet-equine-heart-attacks-happen/ Given how rare sudden death is and how difficult to predict, it is not surprising they kept racing Many Clouds. Sprinter Sacre wasn't retired until he sustained a leg injury. They brought him back from a arrhythmia issue successfully. Ultimately race horses are a mass produced commodity for entertainment. We may feel sadness for the passing of a great horse like Many Clouds but racehorses die every week, most we don't notice. |
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why would they say they tested him if they hadnt ?
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A great horse and a sad loss to the sport and particularly to his connections.
Quick queston to those who say he should have been retired. If you had a horse capable of showing high class form that you thought might still be capable of winning another Grand National and he had been passed fit by the vet to stay in training would you retire him? |
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They need to keep figures for heart attacks because it's a side effect of performance enhancing drugs (I'm not saying that was an issue here in any way or form).
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oh jeez it gets worse
 excellent post BB |
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I wouldn't even have a runner in the National. If I had one that won a big race he'd be wrapped in cotton wool from then on.
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In most cases sudden death is impossible to predict i agree and is unavoidable , but when a horse shows distress after a race on more than one occasion then you could say it's avoidable.
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So you would have wrapped up Many Clouds after the Hennessey and never won the 2015 National?
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aye makes sense, horses bred to race and lets not run them because they won a big race.
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Then if he wasn't tested dealer then he didn't get treated the same as a human athlete might have done.
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It's sad, but in another way it's good, ending his life in glory, rather than growing old and infirm in a field, or being retired and sent dressaging
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if you seriously think that horse didnt receive 100% the best treatment available then honestly i think you are deluded
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Given that he had past problems you could sort of understand aftertiming that he could had been retired, but when you see a horse horse try so hard minutes before his death, its hard to say he has issues as he is putting all in, maybe putting too much in. Probably what made him so good, he wanted it no matter what.
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OK, the Fear. Let's forget the National. So if you owned Many Clouds and he clearly retained all his ability and he had been passed fit to race and the trainer was also happy with the horse would you retire him?
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Horse racing is risky at the best of times , but when you know your champ has an undiagnosed condition to me that's a risk to many.
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what undiagnosed condition?
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Uh breathing appratus at the end of races might be a clue
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So sad to see what happened today but even sadder to see some of the vitriol posted afterwards re the rights or wrongs of keep running him.
We as punters think we have the divine right to form an opinion - rightly or wrongly- about horses/jockeys/trainers/pundits on a daily basis when the truth is we know but a fraction of what the full picture is . Do you honestly think that those closest to the horse would willingly risk the horses wellbeing if they were in any doubt as to it after all the pleasure it had given them and secondly us . A cruel way for this warrior to go but sadly these things do happen - he will be fondly remembered thats for sure and thats the way he should be remembered |
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again i will go back to humans, the brownlee brothers after triathlons, oxygen, hospital, have they undiagnosed conditions, should they both retire?
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correct Paul
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They been through cardiac tests and can call their own shots
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easy with hindsight but I just wonder if the breathing op in enabling him to gallop faster for longer indirectly put more strain on his heart?.
I'm ignorant on these issues though - need to educate myself. I do know that not for one moment before the race did I think 'Many Clouds should not be running'. |
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I suppose the difference is that they have the choice, the dealer. Like for example James Taylor choosing to retire from cricket because of a heart condition. But I still don't think the people who have lost their horse derserve to be castigated for making the completely rational decision to race their horse.
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Mate of mine was there today and told me it was heartbreaking when the horse didn't make to the winners enclosure and the atmosphere was terrible.
Also one other, thing Many Clouds did not wobble after this race he was walking around just fine without a care for a full minute, then went down quickly. Maybe the previous wobbles was connected to today's event maybe not. I don't think that is conclusively known yet, it could be it was an unrelated issue. |
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yes they may well have, all based on specialist advice. surely the same specialist advice that the trainer and connections had.
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The Brownlee comparisons. The Dealer was watching Racing UK today, and not ITV4.
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But I'm sure OS would have stated that if that were the case . He might have got specialist advice but if he mentioned wind op then he would of mentioned that i would have thought .
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Tom you are an owner now so you become attached to em mate just like ya pet dog/cat/canary whatever and you just wouldnt intentionally set out to endanger em would ya .
As said elsewhere he was one of my all time favs and even though i never bet him today i was over the moon when he battled back to get up on the line only then left deflated as a tearful Lydia -ok you never saw her but it was obvious in the tone of her voice- then relayed the tragic unfolding of what came next |
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Barton if I owned Many Clouds I doubt he would have raced on after two wobbles. First time i might have written it off as one of those things.
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sadly i was working
BW i get the impression if the post mortem said he died of a heart attack and natural causes you would say it was a cover up. so cant see any point carrying this on. you would never endanger them Paul and 100% trust the trainers advice |
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No I think we all know it was a heart attack but one that was possibly avoidable compared to most .
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hindsight is a wonderful thing, let's not apportion any blame here
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Died what he loved doing best.... Also ran one of his best ever races. I hope Thistlecrack goes on to win the gold cup and makes 'Clouds' epitaph all the greater. I have raised afew glasses in his honour tonight! RIP Clouds..
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