good

I've been reading this fascinating thread and decided to give it a go today. after carefully looking I found 5 to lay and decided to lay them for £10 each. the people on here who have been knocking mike should try it if they think it's easy, it isn't. the first one I layed at 25 and it finished last, I was thinking I've found a way of making a nice steady profit everyday. the next one I layed was rex imperator at Doncaster I layed it at 42 it finished 2nd and went 1.24 in running. I ignored this and carried on but later one I layed at 50 finished unplaced but went 1.31 in running at one point. so I layed 5 at odds between 23 and 50 they all lost and I made £50 on the day. i'd be happy with this except for 2 of them going odds on in running. is this a bad sign or is this just how it goes? part of me is thinking the horses I chose to lay were bad lays because they went short in running, part of me thinks maybe this is just how it goes, I don't know.

dont lAY anything more than 3 to 1 , or place lay. but the best way to make money is betting a place , sometimes 3 places in 5 runner races wow,

but even that one was a risk - LTO1&2 amateur and AW, and LTO3 was a winner! 

at least your heart is getting a work-out

yeahyeah, all betting is a risk and because 90% of races are  low grade and because the form

of 90% of low grade races is virtually valueless most of what one does racing wise is dangerous.

I'vgotthetrots I do the same as you to lesser stakes however and if you carry on you will find

that most of what you lay regardless of price will show up in running some will go short and get

beat, others will win, such is the uncertainty of  horseracing. Best of luck if you carry on.

or a disaster. either way.

yeahyeah, who was the new trainer? would it be a good move to improve a horse by say, sending it, to Alan Berry.?

yeahyeah, in my 60+ years on the turf I have known thousands of horses change yards mostly

they do not improve, fact.

thing is when you're laying to 50s, "mostly they do not improve" isn't a risk I'd take!


I don't lay anywhere near 50s (20 is usually my max), and for a me a recent change of trainer is a red flat to avoid.

that would be 20s on here... and i know they can win (oh, do I know they can win... ) but I analyze and analyze and analyze

for me, form study is the key - it's not just "this horse is 20 therefore I'll lay it".

I can be done but you need to be very very discipline. My mate has no interest in horses only making making money and his style to to lay 2 horses a day and have no other bets. He mostly lay 4/1 in the win market and 3/1 in the place market. He average out £50 to £60 per day and he is more than happy with that.

I tried following him once and lost £200 and got bored and went back to my normal betting pattern (random).

Sweetchild, for your info as requested
30/5  62.37
31/5  85.77
1/6   90.03
(easier with big races and high liquidity).

Cheers and good luck

The previous 4 years... compared to 2013

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Deadbrain, 1.4 lays and under, -14 points in 4 years, briefly reached 0.36 profit.

just had a go at this today, i agree with yeahyeah to an extent, if there any positives or should it be negatives in the lay then dont touch it, to me these variables would be first time for new trainer ..if a decent trainer...first time headgear...in poor form but has its ground conditions...poor form but likes the course...unusual jockey booking etc etc

anyway day one results...

race one..laid wheelaver @30.00, heezagrey @60.0, sycho fred @47.0 and velvet vic @46.0 result +9% of bank
race two..laid gainsbroughs art @38.0 result +3% of bank

only one more was of interest, the shy man in the last, nearly two years off and drifting like a barge, but just cant get his wetherby win a few starts back out of my mind so ive left it

wee eck,

90% of races are  low grade and because the form of 90% of low grade races is virtually valueless...not true


in my 60+ years on the turf I have known thousands of horses change yards mostly they do not improve, fact...massive generalisation...depends largely from whom to whom, but you wouldnt want to have been laying those that joined M Pipe 20 yrs ago or those joining O'Meara and Appleby of late....in addition, if you'd backed every horse that changed trainer and had first start for that trainer over jumps 2010-2012, you would have a 10% SR and shown a profit at BSP...i cant calculate what %age improved but i think that's enough to suggest that 'mostly they do not improve' is a dubious statement

^ would only partly  agree with that, and DARNBOROUGH yesterday was one of those exceptions, no timeform rating due to poor form and only one race since last August, only previous chase form pulled up in a 3m 1f Hntrs Ch, 33-1.  New stable, drop back to 2m, showed no form recently,  market spoke 5-2 second fav, won by 10l.

wee eck, i think to call 3 years of trainer changes 'exceptions' is a bit convenient...that repreesents over 500 horses winning fto for their new yard...trainers have to be savvy not to buy the ones destined for the knackers yard and punters have to be savvy to spot the trainers that are savvy!...but to state that a trainer change is essentially a negative NOWADAYS is wrong, i'm afraid

laying 40,50/1 shots ,u would need a large bank account,i would sooner lay a 1.3 '@£100,level.low risk high gain,ones man meat is another mans poison.u never see a poor bookie,im a bookie.

any struggles today with the bigger prices showing up?