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old time jockeys ...
old time jockeys ...
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I'm intrigued that that link shows the Light Programme having no less than 6 programs on Motot Cycling during the day. I guess that's the Isle of Man TT - in the days of John Surtees.
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*Motor
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Ged,those Thirsk winners on the Saturday, Tortuga, Double Cream and Singing Scot makes it sound like a decent card. I wasn't there but attended the day before on a lovely Spring afternoon. Henry Cecil who had only taken out a licence a couple of years earlier sent up one runner and Greville Starkey had travelled up as well for the ride. Henry's record in his early years with a few runners at the smaller Yorkshire tracks was exceptional and another bonus was that it was a non-gambling stable so prices were often generous. The horse was Orosio in the last race, first time out in a 12f maiden and it was around 3-1 in the Life. They backed one of Tommy Sheddens from around 10s to near favourite and Orosio drifted to 11-2 in a place. Orosio did the business and turned out to be a decent animal. The last race in those days was nearly always a non handicap, usually a maiden. Now it's invariably an impossible handicap, thanks to those bookies.
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Talking of old time jockeys. In the sixties i worked for Frank Carr at Malton, we took a horse Chamform to Kelso for a Three Year old Hurdle, thought it would trot up, had fancy prices, only thing bothering me was the 7lb jockey ,only thing i knew was he had just come over from Ireland. Was ten lenghts clear at the second last and cantering in,then it ind did about three sumersaults,nearly sending the 7lb claimer back to Ireland in the process. On returning to the paddock i said to Frank Carr "Where did you find him Frank?" "They told me he was a good lad " was all he could say. The Horse never won again. The 7lb claimer he did just a bit better. Oh by the way they called the 7lb claimer Ron Barry.
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guardamar, did you know Ted Carter ? Also Frank Carr's colours, green, yellow sleeves, yellow cap with black spots, seen winning may a race in the north. Good Trainer.
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Orosio I remember. Won the Cesarewitch. Cecil hasn't won it since - I guess it and the Cambridgeshire are not really his style. I particularly remember Greville Starkey riding Relay Race for him at Newbury in the John Porter. Piggott was riding Freefoot for Harry Wragg and moved him up alongside Relay Race about 2 out, just as Starkey was looking to move out, and held him in just long enough to stop him getting out in time. Piggott popped Freefoot in front right on the line - the horse won very few races, though he was placed in the Derby and in most of his other races too, but didn't like being in front. It was a brilliant piece of race riding by Piggott. I think Starkey lost his job with Cecil soon afterwards.
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Ged, it's been bugging me for the past few hours, who trained Tortuga ?, I should know but it's gone from the old memory.
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guardamar - are you sure the horse was called Chamform?
Chamform ran as a 2-y-o trained by M.W.Easterby at Doncaster in July 1965 (A.Robson). By August the following year F.Carr had it and ran it in the Steward’s H’cap at Pontefract (D.Stansfield). It contested one 3-y-o hurdle race in December at Southwell ridden by J. Lehane. Trainer James Ford then took over and the horse was dope tested after pulling up in a hurdle race at Windsor (D.O’Donovan) It also ran at Devon in May 1967. |
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paulbu - Tortuga was trained by S.Wainwright
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Thanks Whit. You mention northern jockey D (Deryk) Stansfield in your post. Anything on him in your goody bag ?
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WHITWITLAW, Thanks for the information regarding the bookshop, will certainly pay a call as I am not far from Manchester.
He says he is retiring at the end of this year, I hope the business continues. |
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I think Tortuga must have had more than one trainer. I can find a link to an RP snippet that mentions Harry Bell's Tortuga being touched off, and a gamble foiled, in the Billy Bow hurdle at Newcastle, by WA's Master Hero. (1972).
Tortuga won 12 races in all. 6 on the flat and 6 over hurdles - including the Northern Hurdle at Haydock. |
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PAULABO. YES i KNEW TEDDY CARTER very well,first met him at Pat Rohans in 1959. He used to give me a lift from Malton and drop me off at Heaton Park ,Manchester where my parents lived in those days. Teddys folks had a farm near Warrington. He rode Bob when it won the Ebor for Capt Elsey in about 1954. Ted lodged with Frank Carr at Malton. We started out at A yard at Norton ,called Norton House stables, now been built over,i was Franks Head Lad at the time. Teddy rode them all flat and jumpers, great pilot ,nice lad,
Not politically correct in the present climate THEY USED TO SAY OF HIM "COULD STOP A TRAIN IN A TUNNEL" |
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Whitwitlaw. Regarding Chamform ,you may have the benifit of the form book from Browsers(Thank you for that shop name) i only have my memory. The horse did run at SOUTHWELL in december1965 (I REMEMBER BECAUSE THAT WAS THE LAST MEETING RUN IN ENGLAND UNTIL MARCH1966, although i think they raced at Ayr in that period. but the race i refer to was at Kelso in October 1965. if you could check that for me i would appreciate it. It 47 years ago, i have been around the block a few times since as you can imagine
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Paulbu. You asked about Deryk Stansfield, once again knew him at Pat Rohans in 1960, just returned from riding in South Africa.
He rode for Frank carr ,lighweights, came from Bradford . Was killed at Hamilton PARK .The running rails and posts were a bit different those days, as Deryk found out ,when one of those concrete posts was to cost him his life |
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Whitwitlaw.re.prev. post,the year it ran at southwell in dec 1966 so it was october 1966 not 1965 i think the big freeze was december 18th 1966 to March1967
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guardamar - you are right. Chamform is the first runner on the card (making its hurdle's debut) at Kelso on Sat 29 Oct, 1966. R Barry riding. Frank Carr has another in the race, Mr Darlin, ridden by L.N.Lofgren, who rides another for the stable in the 3rd race (Frere's Image).
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Ron Barry rode on the corresponding card a year earlier as a 7lb claimer (2 for W Crawford). It looks like he's a 3lb claimer in '66.
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There's a couple of winners on the card that I remember (not from that day) - Dark Don and Evening Brae (who I remember as always getting placed).
Playlord, as a 5yo, was top weight in the handicap hurdle. On the same day at Cheltenham, you would find Flyingbolt making his seasonal debut; Makaldar, Sempervivum and Salmon Spray in a 6-runner race; and in the opening novice chase, Kirriemuir and Sir Thopas. The shock was Flyingbolt getting beat, and the comment that "maybe he hadn't recovered from his wart trouble" - so perhaps that was the beginning of the end of him as a superstar. |
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ged thanks for the info Chamform,1966
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but who was L.N.Lofgren? I don't remember that name at all.
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Ged have no idea cant recall L. N .lofgren, thought the other horse was called me Darlin not Mr Darlin but may have that wrong,but dont think the jockey worked in the yard as i dont recgonise the name did he claim ?
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You're right - it was Me Darlin. I read it off an online copy of the Glasgow Herlad, and they have plenty of spelling mistakes. They have it Mr in their card, but Me in their betting forecast.
No he didn't claim. The Herald had Chamform in at 8-1 in their betting forecast, with Me Darlin at 100-8, in a field of 14. |
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Looks like he was definitely riding a few for the stable around that time. I've just looked at a Haydock card a month later - Frank Carr had 3 runners on it, and he rode all 3, and had no other rides on the card.
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ged .there was a guy in the yard who was danish or norwegian it sounds like that might be him
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playlord , gordon richards , remember him dropping his hind legs in the water at wetherby , in what was a major race at the track 3miler ....he carried top weight ,anyone remember the race , i think they dropped it a few years ago....?
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mentioning Norwegian, does anyone remember T Dahl, I think he trained in Norway, had his horses with Toby Balding,had about a 50% strike rate when he rode them in the 70's or 80's.
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Didnt he wear a turban
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L.Lofgren was from Sweden.
The three mounts he took at Haydock were his last in this country. |
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Terje Dahl won the Danish and Sewdish Grand Nationals.
He was also due to ride Rutherfords in the English Grand National. His friend, Mr J. Bonnier, himself a Swede, bought Rutherfords for £15,000 specifically for T.Dahl to ride. Unfortunately T.Dahl took a shocking fall in a point-to-point a couple of days earlier. (Pat Buckley came in for the ride.) In September 1971 he won the £4,000 VAT 69 Steeplechase at Oslo on Overdose. He had his last ride on April 7 1980. A Mr T.Dahl saddled King Of Troy in Newmarket’s July Cup on July 10th, same year. I presume it was the same man. |
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guardarma, were you at Frank Carr's during the John Banks era? The stable was a fascinating one to take an interest in and Catterick was a favourite venue. I remember Gracie Square winning there under Clive Eccleston backed from 25s to 12s and then a few weeks later on a Saturday the stable had a treble there, all well backed at big prices. I think Ted rode two and Clive the other. Year would be 1972/3. Frank's own horse Humble Boy was another to win a few sellers.
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Anyone else old enough to remember shrewd Dunbar trainer George Boyd and his two jockeys Norman Stirk and Norman? McIntosh.
Stirk rode Rockavon the Boyd trained 66/1 winner of the Two Thousand Guineas in 1961. |
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Oldgit, there's many a reference to Boyd, Stirk & McIntosh in this thread, particularly the latter.
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PAULBU. Yes i was there from the start. I first met John BANKS at Newcastle,Gosforth Park in the sixties. We had just got this horse from Albert Cooper (trained in Malton for Jimmy Corrigan who owned most of the amusement arcades on Scarborough sea Front,some might remember Pony Express decent horse and Showmans Fair) The horse Banks sent us was called Malora, As Frank was at another meeting i was left to give the jockey(cant think of jockeys name JOHHNY------)his orders. I had never met this John Banks didnt know anything about the guy. When all of a sudden i saw this big guy hugh trilby **** Cowboy hat ,with a great Camel haired coat slung round his shoulders. I realised he was heading for me. Hand held out ten yards before he reached me,with the words "JOHN BANKS GLASGOW" I had never met anyone with so much confidence,i thought he OWNED Glasgow never mind lived there, i knew there and then that i would hear lots more about this guy in the future i was not proved wrong.When John Banks sent more horses to Frank there were some good times,but there were lots of bad times, i counted 15 losing favourites,all good things, they skint me in the end and i parted company,wiser but poorer. Years later i called to see Frank Carr at Whitewall stables, He had just come back from training in Hong Kong He had bought Whitewall in 1963 included were About six Beautiful cottages and two hugh paddocks, paid 10,000 POUNDS FOR THE LOT i told him at the time he was crazy to pay that much. That afternoon he told me he had had it valued at 3 million,
. He also told me John Banks had asked him to take all his horses and to restart where they had left off. Frank declined as he put it"Once on the John Banks Rollar Coaster was enough, Twice was crazy. He never trained for him again, That was the last time i was with my friend Frank Carr a colourful character,generous to a fault. he passed away not long after. |
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Thanks guardamar, most enlightening, it just goes to show how different the hard reality can be to the perception from the outside that everything in the garden is rosy.
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Not strictly on topic but does anyone recall a horse called Firefright?
It had a really pronounced dipped back, but that didn't stop it being a good horse who won races. Some info on his career and trainer and jockeys, would be good. Another favourite of mine was Epsom Imp, trained by Jack Holt in Epsom I think. |
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Reading about John Banks above .... Was that the chap who got "involved" with John Francome ?
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The very same.
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" John Banks above .... Was that the chap who got "involved" with John Francome ?"
Francome openly admitted he talked to Banks about horses he had ridden, and had said nothing that he wouldn't have repeated to Fred Winter or the owners. Of course this was contravening the rules of racing, but Francome claimed he didn't know that. Probably true, he probably never read the rules of racing anyway.  He may have been foolish and a bit stupid but I don't think he done anything like stopping horses. I don't think for a moment Fred Winter would have stood by him if he ever seriously thought Francome had stopped a horse. |
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collywobble.....
Firefright, trained by P Supple and ridden by Jimmy Lindley, came last of four on his debut at Newmarket, Tuesday, 13th April 1971 He turned out to be a useful horse. On May 13th 73 at York, in the £5,000 Minard Knitting Gold Cup, Peter Walwyn’s Loyal Guard attempted to lead from start to finish. Pau Cook, last in the straight in the field of 19, had a brilliant run up on the inside on Firefright and just got up on the line. Bill Marshall, who then trained it, said that the horse would stop as soon as it hit the front. Everything went Paul Cook’s way, the other horses going too fast for the first 10 furlongs. He failed next time out in Newbury’s June Summer Cup and went on to finish 17th in The Arc. He also ran in the Jockey club Stakes before taking on the likes of Comedy Of Errors over hurdles. Firefright held the York course record in 1973 until Diminuendo shattered it when winning the Yorkshire Oaks. Firefighter last stepped foot on a racecourse at Redcar, May 26, 1975 when running unplaced in the Vaux Gold Tankard at Redcar. The link below is Firefright's first race. http://community.cdnbf.net/community.betfair.com/user/whitwhitlaw/0cb071eab20fc8cb6d64b01d75b87bad.png?v=264600 |