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Does anyone think I should go to court?
Does anyone think I should go to court?
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Replies: 435
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They said it wasn't them. But they are hoping this will just go away and that will never be tested.
It is even worse if this is Betfair themselves. Heads are on the block here. If it is Betfair we have Betfair lying. Running bots on their own exchange. Fleecing customers. Not paying out on their bets. How many other frauds cover be under all this? Better just pay up and keep the lid tight down. But then a £21 million hole will appear in the accounts - that's a problem as well. |
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Six gun negative balances can happen. Carling cup final Ars vs Chelsea highlighted an issue in the fgs market that can lead to this. Interestingly in that case BF waived the balances!!...
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absolutely salmon, starting point for all of this is that we need the full facts, but with no independent review even if they told us many wouldn't believe it
if you take the current official messages at face value, there is a failing in the betfair system no matter how the bet was placed by the "customer" because it should never have made it into the market, in essence there is possible negligence in the way the system or the markets were managed the problem comes in the 20m ish won, they won't have it, it just doesn't exist and they won't be able to cover it |
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21million wouldnt bring bown BF thought, it would be hard to explain to shareholders and can you imagine the effect on share price going forward
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There is a good chance £20m could be wiped off the value of their share price over the next few days as a result of this. That's why I am so surprised they haven't moved more on this issue this evening.
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a fair arguement from a punter perspective would be that... I dont have any money, ie i am in debit, i borrowed some money to gamble. i lost, i dodnt have the money (i borrowed it) so i should have my funds returned
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betfair have lost out on this market as well as the other bets placed, but this is never mentioned, just the virtues of a few that spotted the mistake and didnt profit from it.
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I expected more common sense from you guys,maybe DUGGAN and FRAUDBOY got it right?
FFS what a shambles.........common sense tells you it was a mistake............AND NOT ONE OF YOU WILL COLLECT........NAP    |
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jeez look at the chit poker format they offering its more juiced than a barney curley plot
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it matters not if i collect personally, i didnt bet, its the underlying principle that matters here, how and why did it happen
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Betfair trully need a good press corespondant, and they needed him since around three years ago.
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its tough at the top.
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honestly i need to put my hand down now
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What worries me most is the fact that there were TWO major blunders at the same time. The price remaining @ 29 and the " mystery punter " with "unlimited funds".Too much of a coincidence for my liking. Could it be that Betfair itself is employing traders like banks do? We all know what that can lead to , ask Nick Gleason
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what they need is to stop chasing the profit and focus on the customer, they might find the two go together
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having moved my money elsewhere till this thing gets sorted i will now be betting with imaginery money
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nick leeson*
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I'd rather ask Nick Leeson, but I take the point.
We all know the bots operate and who better than Betfair to cream the system. I've asked about the late suspends in football and jokingly said it was the give the monkey time to place their bets which will operate without the time lag.... Cans and cans of worms wriggling around... |
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this error and the kamikaze optimism to being paid reminds me of a only fools and horses clip when Rodney works out several times that they cant make a profit on a deal on his calculator, then
Dell Boy says "try this one".....quality  |
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Elise you should stop stoking the fire............the fukcwits need to understand the model to save them more grief.
BF work on commision based on bets placed,In Running is purely you V me. 1 Winner.........1 Loser..........BF takes their cut................................ What a nice cut that would have been?   |
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Not if it were Betfair at the losing end of the deal.
rrscaughtboy - you saying you know exactly what Betfair does. You saying they don't run bots in the markets? |
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yet again people mis-understand that stating a bot can refer to normal exchange mechanisms and tasks and not some program creaming off the deficiencies of the system to risk members.
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Betfair have voided a market with thousands of participants in it because one account has made an error in placing a bet. It does not strike me as equitable that an entire market population must be penalised, extremely heavily in some cases and to the tune of over 20 million pounds in total in order to protect one individual who may or may not be them themselves or an affiliate, it matters not.
We have all pressed the wrong button and entered the wrong stake, backed instead of layed, submitted the wrong price, etc. If you added up all the mistakes all the Betfair punters have made together since inception it would far outweigh 20 Million pounds worth of losses. In addition, this error, we are led to believe was able to occur because Betfair themselves negligently allowed somebody to offer a bet they could not pay out on. This is a credit issue between Betfair and the customer, the liability of which has nothing to do withand cannot be vicariously transferred to participants in the said in-running market who have acted in the utmost good faith and in a perfectly legal and equitable manner. Furthermore it is textbook negligence from Betfair to allow a customer to place a bet he potentially could not cover, that negligence has resulted in a huge liability, but nevertheless it is their liability as it ensued directly as a result of their failure to handle their clients bet correctly. Once that bet was placed, Betfair are saying to the market, we are displaying a bet available for our customers to take. We stand behind that bet in terms of it's legitimacy, we endorse the source of the funds that support it. Otherwise, the very foundations and sanctity of the exchange are nullified, this goes to the very heart of Betfair's license to be the middle man. We pay them millions upon millions of commission and in return we are granted one thing above all else, a safety of knowledge that if a bet is displayed as available and that we are matched, we know it is real and tangible, a court will be entitled to ask: where are we if a customer matches that bet and are subsequently told (after the race has finished) apologies, but that bet wasn't real and you will not be paid. At that point it becomes fraud and theft. They haven't a prayer in my opinion. |
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an imaginary bot you mean that has 600 million plus in account and then gets told to lay a front running second favourite at 29 all the way to the winning enclosure, what name will you give this new bot?
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Six Gun,I hope by now you know me better than most.All i am saying is,if we are punting on a mechanical mechanism then mistakes......fukc ups happen.
I used to pay locals $50 US to walk through fields in a straight line,some earned good money,some left it for their family. |
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the error shows that we have a justification in naming this new bot, the silicon brain dead bot.
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the moneytree bot sounds like a good name.
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oh yeh, thats even better, lets all get on and kill the golden goose.
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rrscaughtboy - there are some punters here who "won" £10's of thousands on that race.
whatever we say I can't see this ending here. This is a serious mess for Betfair. It strikes at its credibility and legitimacy to run an exchange. I'm not involved for the tiny sum I lost but I will be interested to see how it develops. |
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how did that line in that song by the thompson twins goe ?
" do we know what it means to believe in machines, its a labour of love" |
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Betfair have voided a market with thousands of participants in it because one account has made an error in placing a bet. It does not strike me as equitable that an entire market population must be penalised, extremely heavily in some cases and to the tune of over 20 million pounds in total in order to protect one individual who may or may not be them themselves or an affiliate, it matters not.
We have all pressed the wrong button and entered the wrong stake, backed instead of layed, submitted the wrong price, etc. If you added up all the mistakes all the Betfair punters have made together since inception it would far outweigh 20 Million pounds worth of losses. In addition, this error, we are led to believe was able to occur because Betfair themselves negligently allowed somebody to offer a bet they could not pay out on. This is a credit issue between Betfair and the customer, the liability of which has nothing to do with and cannot be vicariously transferred to participants in the said in-running market who have acted in the utmost good faith and in a perfectly legal and equitable manner. Furthermore it is textbook negligence from Betfair to allow a customer to place a bet he potentially could not cover, that negligence has resulted in a huge liability, but nevertheless it is their liability as it ensued directly as a result of their failure to handle their clients bet correctly. Once that bet was placed, Betfair are saying to the market, we are displaying a bet available for our customers to take. We stand behind that bet in terms of it's legitimacy, we endorse the source of the funds that support it. Otherwise, the very foundations and sanctity of the exchange are nullified, this goes to the very heart of Betfair's license to be the middle man. We pay them millions upon millions of commission and in return we are granted one thing above all else, a safety of knowledge that if a bet is displayed as available and that we are matched, we know it is real and tangible, a court will be entitled to ask: where are we if a customer matches that bet and are subsequently told (after the race has finished) apologies, but that bet wasn't real and you will not be paid. At that point it becomes fraud and theft. They haven't a prayer in my opinion. |
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Betfair have voided a market with thousands of participants in it because one account has made an error in placing a bet. It does not strike me as equitable that an entire market population must be penalised, extremely heavily in some cases and to the tune of over 20 million pounds in total in order to protect one individual who may or may not be them themselves or an affiliate, it matters not.
We have all pressed the wrong button and entered the wrong stake, backed instead of layed, submitted the wrong price, etc. If you added up all the mistakes all the Betfair punters have made together since inception it would far outweigh 20 Million pounds worth of losses. In addition, this error, we are led to believe was able to occur because Betfair themselves negligently allowed somebody to offer a bet they could not pay out on. This is a credit issue between Betfair and the customer, the liability of which has nothing to do with and cannot be vicariously transferred to participants in the said in-running market who have acted in the utmost good faith and in a perfectly legal and equitable manner. Furthermore it is textbook negligence from Betfair to allow a customer to place a bet he potentially could not cover, that negligence has resulted in a huge liability, but nevertheless it is their liability as it ensued directly as a result of their failure to handle their clients bet correctly. Once that bet was placed, Betfair are saying to the market, we are displaying a bet available for our customers to take. We stand behind that bet in terms of it's legitimacy, we endorse the source of the funds that support it. Otherwise, the very foundations and sanctity of the exchange are nullified, this goes to the very heart of Betfair's license to be the middle man. We pay them millions upon millions of commission and in return we are granted one thing above all else, a safety of knowledge that if a bet is displayed as available and that we are matched, we know it is real and tangible, a court will be entitled to ask: where are we if a customer matches that bet and are subsequently told (after the race has finished) apologies, but that bet wasn't real and you will not be paid. At that point it becomes fraud and theft. They haven't a prayer in my opinion. |
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"no win-no fee" also means win and we take all in fees!
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Six Gun,you know full well I stick up for the lads and lasses who punt on here,always have and always will.
Sorry for anyone involved in the debacle,but I can only see technical issues at fault. From a punter view,anyone betting KNEW it had to be a fukc up even before the weigh in.Once the volume was known they knew it was a mistake,if they didnt they should not be betting. LOOK AT the VOID GRAND NATIONAL.........JW won........look at his eyes.............he knew he was not being paid his percentage. |
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^you never wrote that yourself
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if the law was an ass, then lawyers would be pretty damn close to the hole.
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bf_fananatic...no it does not. If you deal with reputable firms, then No Win No Fee should mean that the claimant recovers 100% of his damages recovered as the solicitor recovers his fees from the opponent.
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oh yeah, then how come my girlfrien who had a nasty fall on a wet floor in a supermarket,
used a "no win-nofee" firm and then when the supermarket paid them-her £2000 , they wanted £4000 plus for sending a few letters and a few phone calls when it was settled out of court, she never got a penny? |