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Well none of these will be running:
Fantastic Moon Zagrey Paddington Hurricane Lane (officially scratched) Adayar (scratched) Torquator Tasso (retired to stud) Grand Glory (retired to stud) Desert Crown (out for the season, at least) And there are loads more who are extremely unlikely such as: Sammarco (in the sales the night before the Arc) Equinox (Has not been entered and connections have stated that they will miss the Arc). | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Continuous running in The ARC 15 days after winning a race over 14f; Emily Dickinson (Cadran); Unquestionable (Lagardere); Opera Singer (Boussac); Jackie Oh (Opera).
Luxembourg and Paddington being aimed at Ascot's Champions Day. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I don't consider running in a winning a 14f race just 15 days before the Arc as necessarily a disadvantage. But when the race is the St Leger, that is a whole different ball game. The stats are massively against Continuous winning this. 2 years ago I posted stats that indicated that the Leger was one of the worst (or the worst) G1 race for horses to make a quick reappearance after winning or even running in. I will try and retrieve updated stats soon.
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Since 1997 22 horses have run in the St Leger and reappeared in Group 1 races within the next 25 days. None of these made the first 2 places on this reappearance:
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Which is a better horse or a horse with more credentials, Order Of St George or Continuous? I think most would agree it'd be Order Of St George. The former was 4th To Enable, and 3rd to Found in The ARC,
Continuous beat Arrest? What did Arrest beat? Continuous was behind King Of Steel and Ace Impart over 12f; behind Ace Impart and Feed The Flame over 10.5f. The ARC price of Continuous is about right on a line with Feed The Flame given possible ground. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Arc forfeits on Monday
Sisfahan. Henk Grewe Haya Zark. Adrien Fouassier Onesto. Fabrice Chappet Simca Mille. Stephane Wattel Bay Bridge. Sir Michael Stoute Westover. Ralph Beckett Hukum. Owen Burrows Place Du Carrousel. Andre Fabre Through Seven Seas. Tomohito Ozeki Emily Dickinson. Aidan O'Brien Free Wind. John and Thady Gosden Sprewell. Jessica Harrington Mr Hollywood. Henk Grewe Feed The Flame. Pascal Bary Ace Impact. Jean-Claude Rouget | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Since the French Derby has been over 10F (2005) not 1 wnr has gone on to
win the Arc that year,think 10 have tried.Sottsass did but as a 4yr old. Ace Impact could well change that this year.1st try @ 12F in this but the way he he won the his Derby looks sure to get it to me.No reason that Feed The Flame & Continuous will reverse the form from what I can see.Seems to go on all surfaces aswell.Looking forward to a big performance from this horse.Hope they all show. GL ALL | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The SL to Arc is a tough call for any horse. Even Nijinsky failed. A 2 week gap instead of the usual 3 weeks demands even more. A lively surface over 2.5 furlongs less doesn't help.
Smacks a little of "There's nothing else for him. Whats the downside anyway, he won't run again this year" rather than looking like a long-term plan. Should be double figures with those negatives. Well, he is with me. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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User Friendly came close when just touched off by Subotica.
Already a GP1 filly being an Epsom,Irish & Yorkshire Oaks wnr. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Latest BBC forecast for Paris (Charles de Gaul Airport) is for no rain at all between now and race time on Sunday. Lots of sunshine all week and warm. And the warmest day will be Sunday.
(26C).https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/6269554 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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fantastic moon could be supplimented back in according to media ,what happens to ante post bets ?
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Foyles, I have just read that on Paris Turf, which uses the caveat "if we are to believe the rumours coming out of Germany..."
Fantastic Moon was not an original entry so he would not be "rejoining" the field as Paris Turf have said. But connections had ruled the Arc out only a week or two ago after previously being under consideration for the race so, if supplemented, he would in a loose sense be rejoining the field. All antepost bets would be reinstated if he is supplemented. This sort of thing has happened several times previously without any problems. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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from RacingTV website:
A favourable weather forecast has prompted connections of Fantastic Moon to reconsider supplementing the German Derby winner for Sunday’s Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe at ParisLongchamp. Despite winning a recognised Arc trial over the course and distance in the Prix Niel, the Sea The Moon colt looked set to sidestep Europe’s premier middle-distance contest in favour of either a trip to the Breeders’ Cup or a tilt at the Japan Cup. However, with little or no rain forecast in Paris in the run-up to Sunday’s showpiece, his team are now giving serious thought to adding him to the field on Wednesday at a cost of €120,000. Lars-Wilhelm Baumgarten of owners Liberty Racing said: “We discussed it yesterday, because the weather forecast is dry and the sun in shining in Paris, perhaps we will get good ground. “We will decide as late as possible because every day is important for us. How the horse is, how is he looking and working. “We have a few opportunities too with the Breeders’ Cup and the Japan Cup and now we have the option of the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe again. “We will see – our vet will check him, he will gallop in Munich and then we will see what’s going on and what the weather forecast will be in Paris. “We decided two weeks ago that we would not run but the situation is new, the ground is better than we expected and the horse is better than we expected 14 days after the Prix Niel. “It’s new information and a lot of horses are out of the race, so we will see.” | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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thanks marksman , a lot of ifs buts and maybes as to wether he will even line up but if he does he has a chance and wont be 100/1 .we will see, good luck .
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Foyleswar
The forfeit (2) and supplementary stages are a day earlier for the Arc (not so other races on the card) so you will know before tomorrow lunchtime if Fantastic Moon is a runner. Final runners on Thursday. I also have a fun bet on another German horse, Mr Hollywood at crazy odds (average @ 147) although ideally he wants soft/heavy, but has run OK on good. The H2H between our runners is 1-1, MH beating FM by 7.5L (10f on heavy) and the latter turning the form around winning by 2.5L in the German Derby(12f). I've seen FM twice, once in München when he was beaten by Charlie Appleby's Nations Pride, the other occasion at the trial 3 week ago. He ran well to win, but the pace was a farce. Good luck. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Arc forfeits on Wednesday
Sisfahan. Henk Grewe Haya Zark. Adrien Fouassier Onesto. Fabrice Chappet Simca Mille. Stephane Wattel Bay Bridge. Sir Michael Stoute Westover. Ralph Beckett Hukum. Owen Burrows Place Du Carrousel Andre Fabre Through Seven Seas Tomohito Ozeki Free Wind. John and Thady Gosden Mr Hollywood. Henk Grewe Feed The Flame. Pascal Bary Ace Impact. Jean-Claude Rouget Fantastic Moon. Sarah Steinberg Continuous. Aidan O'Brien | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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AOB and Coolmore will not run Auguste Rodin, Luxembourg or Savethelastdance here. I think Continuous offers a day out for the most dominant horseracing stable and horseracing enterprise in the world. I think 6/1 is shocking for a St Leger winner; a place lay is so very tempting for me.
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Agree, Impossible123.
Very short in the betting. I've been trying to look at the pace angle. Does not seem to be any confirmed front runners in the race. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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we maybe looking at a new great of french horseracing to rival some of their best in ace impact . I would select it if my life were on it , but , 7-2 about a horse that connections neglected to run around longchamp in the niel to steal more prizemoney . The course should come as much the same as the last , but , if youre thinking and dont know where you are because you,ve not been before , because the greedy owners wanted a bigger cheque than the niel its a negative . At the prices i,ll be on through seven seas . best of luck with your selection
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the horse knows how to win in big fields ,the current form line doesn't get better , the ground is coming for it and the Japanese couldn't want it more . Only reason its the price is the japanese have bee burnt soo many times . this time they got it . imo
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'gpz6316', are you turning Japanese? A few close shaves and false dawns in the past, and this year's rep is under-the-radar. My anteposts are the 2 French 3 yr olds. Best of luck!
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confirmed runners and riders
(Draw details in brackets) Sisfahan. Lukas Delozier (13) Haya Zark. Gerald Mosse (4) Onesto. Maxime Guyon (9) Simca Mille. Alexis Pouchin (15) Bay Bridge. Richard Kingscote (6) Westover. Rob Hornby (1) Hukum. Jim Crowley (14) Place Du Carrousel. Mickael Barzalona (11) Through Seven Seas. Christophe Lemaire (5) Free Wind. Frankie Dettori (3) Mr Hollywood. Bauyrzhan Murzabayev (10) Feed The Flame. Christophe Soumillon (2) Ace Impact. Cristian Demuro (8) Fantastic Moon. Rene Piechulek (12) Continuous. Ryan Moore (7) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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e , sou desu !
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Indeed it is
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Soumillon or Demuro? Which local jockey pushed a British jockey off his horse deliberately in a big race in France?
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I presume you mean Soumillon when he pushed Rossa Ryan off about a year ago. But it is arguable whether he deliberately pushed him off, or was just trying to push him out of the way. But he did push him anyhow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcrzOM3dNdo | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Thanks 'Marksman'. I got him then, and Demuro against the field. Either will do me fine.
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does not look like a field of world-beaters. surprised emily upjohn was taken out she easily saw off westover at epsom and i'd expect him to be close tomorrow if not actually quite good enough to win
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Emily Upjohn: That's Gosden for you. When defeating Westover at Epsom he was eulogising the fillies, and destination France the main aim. Unless something is amiss with her - no news apparent on this - I think she ought to be here rather than the 2nd-rated Fillies and Mares at Ascot next month.
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Figgis, are you keeping an eye on the times of these races today with regard to the going tomorrow?
Please keep us updated. Thanks | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Marksman, a couple of long distance races aren't the best to use as a guide, but it's difficult to see how it can be slower than good on the evidence so far.
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If my two eg Ace Impact and Feed The Flame cannot win tomorrow I'd like Mr Kingscote and Sir Stoute win with Bay Bridge. Then Sir Stoute could call it a day, and enjoy the rest of his life watching cricket here and very possibly in Barbados.
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Any thoughts on an accurate ground description for tomorrow, it appears to have been cracking the flags all week in Paris but ‘good to soft’ going?? TIA!
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‘Soft’ on ATR website now?
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Very slightly the fast side of good. Basically it's good ground, with no excuse for any of them.
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Good or at worst soft side of good. If there is another hot day will be good.
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I do not know if Figg can reply this late, but
When Feed The Flame won the Grand Prix De Paris it was reported as good to soft but his time indicated much faster going? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I have found this years renewal particularly tough to be confident about anything.
Ace Impact was very impressive in the Jockey Club, but he beat two non stayers and wasn't that far clear of Al Riffa in his prep. Though his times have been good he is still to prove his stamina and at 11/4 I am happy to watch him win. Hukum is now available at s sensible price along with Continuous and Westover. I don't see the Continuous angle myself. A good winner at York and Doncaster, but short of an Arc winner. And the look of a typical after thought from Ballydoyle. Westover and Hukum are similarly matched on their Ascot run, but Westover always seems to find one too good to get his head in front at the top table. I was taken with Feed The Flame early s3ason, and backed him for the Jockey Club. Thought that was a disappointing run but he bounced back in the Grand Prix De Paris. He showed his ability for the distance that day with a sharp turn of foot. He's still on myshort list along side Bay Bridge and Simca Mille. Both have similar questions to answer with the top of the market, but you are getting plenty of juice in their prices. Will try to narrow it down in the morning. Good luck all | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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When Feed The Flame won the Grand Prix De Paris it was reported as good to soft but his time indicated much faster going?
BOTR, yes, really it was good to firm that day. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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If the going description at the Doncaster St Leger is to be believed Continuous put up a remarkable time and despite all the stats being against him I would be annoyed should he win today so have backed him each way.A similar argument applies to Feed the Flame given his performance in the Grand Prix de Paris and have backed him each way. Finally I am hoping the draw difference may give Westover the edge over Hukum and also have backed each way.The place side is still to be finalised and will back which ever number of places exceeds evens.
Should the above be fruitless I have layed Sisfahan,Haya Zark and Mr Hollywood to recoup my stakes.If either of the aforementioned win then I have **** the bed. |