I suggest you read the thread HH.

As it stands if Hawkbill was available at 7/1 today I would lay him. If he was available at 6/4 for a place today I would lay him. But that is not what is available so such a comment is meaningless. If he was available at Evens or less today I would be laying the c r a p out of him, but that comment is meaningless because he isn't. That is why I haven't given a price because Figgis and others would just say it is meaningless because no price is available. Dot the I's and cross the T's out of that one if you like. 

Of course they don't say what price they would back him at either do they? Just destructive cretins, not productive.

Like you I will decide when he is declared to run and what the opposition is at that time. Dot the I's and cross the T's on that one if you like.

Or on the other hand perhaps you could tell me what price you would back him or lay him at? Or would that constitute a proper debate?

What a shame, ah well, I suppose I'll get over it Wink No you won't Figgis. I've been here before with you. You write reams and reams of meaningless drivel. Nothing constructive, only destructive. Nothing changes, just more of the same.

The question should be what price would you lay him at if he's supplemented and the three horses you've mentioned that should beat him, Postponed, Wings of Desire and Erupt all run?

Of course saying you would back him at 5's with a run and he is available at 5's with a run is also meaningless


Only in your world could that statement be meaningless. He's 5s with a run, if he's available at that price if supplemented I back him. Only a complete idiot could misconstrue what has been said.

If have already said I would lay him at 7/1 at this moment in time not knowing who runs.

Laying him now at 7s means laying a horse who at this moment in time is not an intended runner, a totally different scenario.

If the 3 horses you quoted run then he will not be 7/1 more like 10s imo. Do I lay horses at 10s or more. No.

If you think he would start anything like 10/1 if supplemented then I can quite understand why you don't lay 10/1 shots, you're clueless

I think we can all dot the I's and cross the T's on that one.

I know what you mean. I could waste more of my time pointing why that statement is clueless but hey ho. I will definitely now leave you to it. I's dotted and T's crossed. It wasn't short, it wasn't sweet but it was just as I had expected.

Or on the other hand perhaps you could tell me what price you would back him or lay him at? Or would that constitute a proper debate?


not really my thing laying 5/1 shots brigust and personally i haven't even priced the race up yet, i do feel i want to get postponed if that helps but will wait until nearer the day to play...i do feel highland reel is a bit doggy but he hasn't had his ground so far this season...i will be interested in the stoute horse if it runs i thought he put up a low grade group 1 performance at chester and think he may improve for that run, he looks like he could be a big improver in my book but i have never rated him that highly

like a lot of group 1's to be run this season we really are scraping the barrel in regards class, the 3 year olds are a slow bunch but i still haven't got a solid opinion on hawkbill who appears to idle in his races which is making him hard to peg down in my book anyway

Good morning H. Not sure about Cannock Chase. I don't often lay horses at bigger prices either because you may be able to make more by backing one or two you think might beat them. As you say some of the Group 1's have been a bit below standard. I thought the Japanese horse in the POW was not a worthy favourite. It won in France where I thought it was completely flattered as the only fit horse among the top rated ones with excuses offered for most of the others because it was their first run etc. Sadly I thought backing Found at 4s was a far better bet than laying the short priced favourite so I was right in one respect but wrong in the end. Where My Dreamboat got that run from I have no idea. Be good.

In a nutshell I think most of us had agreed that this year's Eclipse was far from a vintage one; the 'fav' on the day, The Gurkha, who'd won impressively in France over 8f had not raced beyond 8f prior, and was outstayed, in my opinion, by Hawkbill, who'd won over 10f despite The Gurkha taking it up 1f out.

Regards Cannock Chase, Bruce Raymind, racing manager to his owner said: "Cannock Chase has go a small injury and will be out for a little while. He will definitely miss the Eclipse. Hopefully, he will be back later in the year."